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Amanda Knox Is Innocent

ymu said:
The wardrobe had been emptied. Glass was on top of the stuff thrown out of the wardrobe.

There's been a court case with witnesses and testimonies and everything. Why are you making shit up when you can read what the people there, and the woman who lived in the room, said about it?
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I'm not making anything up!! I'm commenting. Glass on top of stuff is not necessarily indicative of a faked break-in. And saying "There's been a court case with witnesses and testimonies and everything" means nothing, as the appeal shows.

Don't wanna get dragged into a row here, my point is "we don't know, and never will"
 
twentythreedom said:
I'm not making anything up!! I'm commenting. Glass on top of stuff is not necessarily indicative of a faked break-in. And saying "There's been a court case with witnesses and testimonies and everything" means nothing, as the appeal shows.

Don't wanna get dragged into a row here, my point is "we don't know, and never will"
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ahem. It was M. Scarlett. A man on the street told me so it must be true.
 
dylans said:
No. sorry, Kercher's room wasn't clean at all. Evidence of Guedes presence was everywhere. So you have to argue that the perps cleaned her room but somehow managed to clean everything, except evidence of Guedes presence? Forget the kitchen, or the shower or outside the window. All this is secondary to the one crucial location. The crime scene. The place where we are meant to believe a violent gang rape and murder took place. You expect us to believe that a gang of people held her down stabbed her 47 times and didnt leave any evidence of anyones presence except Guede? Not so much as a finger print or a solitary hair or fibre? Impossible.
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The blood from the victim covered a large area and so could not all be tested for DNA. knox's lamp was found pushed behind the door on the floor of the victim's room and the footprints in the hall, of Guede, going to the door, were only of his right foot. The footprint on the Mat in bathroom, was a bare foot and Guede's were with a shoe. The rest of the barefoot prints leading to the bathroom WERE cleaned as were the left shoe prints of Guede in the hall, possibly as they coincided with the rest of the missing bare footprints.

The prints in the victim's room of Guede were easliy identifiable. His hand print on a pillow, his shoe print etc..

The question still remains. Why the clean up?
 
dylans said:
The prosecutions case was that Kercher was killed resisting a violent sexual assault. This is not disputed by those who believe there were more perpetrators than Guede. Indeed it is at the heart of their argument. That Kercher was held down and killed by more than one perpetrator while resisting rape. Guede himself was convicted of murder and sexual assault. Now you tell me how is it possible for a gang of rapist murderers to hold down and butcher a woman who was no doubt fighting for her life without leaving a single scrap of evidence of their presence. In fact, I will widen my question. Can you show me a case of sexual assault and murder by stabbing anywhere in the world ever where the perpetrator managed to commit such a crime without leaving any evidence of their presence?
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I asked you for the pathology evidence you were relying on for your lurid assertions. You have read the actual evidence presented in court, right?
 
If the victim's room was not cleaned, why were there no fingerprints on Knox's black metal table lamp found on the floor of the same room?

This clearly suggests clean up in murder room. Why was the lamp there in the first place? Odd, on the floor?
 
Anudder Oik said:
If the victim's room was not cleaned, why were there no fingerprints on Knox's black metal table lamp found on the floor of the same room?

This clearly suggests clean up in murder room. Why was the lamp there in the first place? Odd, on the floor?
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There is no assertion that the crime scene was cleaned up. But if it was that begs the question. How is it possible to clean the murder scene and perfectly remove only 2/3rds of the evidence (supposing there were two other perps in the room) and only leave evidence of one? That stretches credulity. But say it was done. Then that begs the other question of what evidence is there in order to sustain the claim that others were involved?

But lets say its all true. There were several perps. So we are now to believe that the perps were so good at covering their tracks, so skilled in forensic science that they managed to clean all evidence of their presence whilst carefully leaving evidence of Guedes presence and, after all that, after that careful and brilliant clean up operation, they then fuck up the relatively simple task of faking the break in.? Give me a break
 
Can anybody deny that there was "Selective" cleaning of the apartment?

What about the lack of fingerprints on that lamp? And the missing footprints.
It's staring us in the face.
 
dylans said:
Ive read a number of sources including Judge Massei's sentencing report. (link below) What is your point. If there is anything I have posted that is factually incorrect please feel free to correct me.
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=286&p=63343
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"brutally raped" and "stabbed 47 times" were the two specifics I asked you about. If you've read the Massei report, you'll be able to point to the pathology evidence in it that justifies your statements. You'll also be able to tell us why you're convinced that there was a break-in despite the testimony about the break-in.

Go on then.
 
ymu said:
"brutally raped" and "stabbed 47 times" were the two specifics I asked you about. If you've read the Massei report, you'll be able to point to the pathology evidence in it that justifies your statements. You'll also be able to tell us why you're convinced that there was a break-in despite the testimony about the break-in.

Go on then.
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I'm not sure what you are disputing or why. The claim that she was stabbed 47 times has been made by numerous sources, including her own father. Now of course this could be untrue and you may have some knowledge that this is incorrect in which case I will bow to your superior knowledge of the case. But you are not disputing that she was stabbed to death in a very brutal way with numerous stab wounds. So what is your point? My point was simply to point out that you don't stab someone to death, whether with one stab wound or a hundred without leaving a god awful mess that contaminates the perpetrators and that the claim that such a crime could occur without the perpetrator leaving any evidence of their presence is not credible.

As for the rape/ sexual assault claim. Again there is no dispute that she died resisting a violent sexual assault at the hands of Rudy Guede. Whether she died before she was raped or not is a mute point. Guede is serving a sentence for sexual assault as well as murder. Again I have to question your point? My point is simply to say that a violent sexual assault and murder is impossible without the perpetrator (s) leaving some evidence of their presence. A point you seem strangely reluctant to answer. There is NO evidence of any other perpetrator at the crime scene except Rudy Guede and that indicates that he is the lone perp.
 
ymu said:
The wardrobe had been emptied. Glass was on top of the stuff thrown out of the wardrobe.

There's been a court case with witnesses and testimonies and everything. Why are you making shit up when you can read what the people there, and the woman who lived in the room, said about it?
Click to expand...

I tried to stay away :(

But I can't help but point out something else. What exactly makes everyone so sure that Guede didn't stage the break-in himself? Maybe he came back later, after changing and showering. Maybe he was worried that someone saw Meredith letting him in*, and decided to stage the break in to make it look like an intruder did it. Guede's story was always that someone came in after he'd had consensual sex w/ Meredith and that the intruder killed her (which by the way is a very common story for rapist/murderers) so he needed to create some evidence that someone else did come in that night.

* By the way, I read (well, skimmed) up to about page 60 of the court document and was just sickened by the feeling that I was being told what to think, when often I found myself in total disagreement with the opinions masquerading as fact.
For example, there are a few pages about why Meredith would have under no circumstances opened the door if Guede had knocked on it. Based on her character of supposedly being "not open to fleeting advances"
I mean wtf does that have to do with opening the door when someone knocks on it? Someone she probably knew was friends with the guys downstairs. Sounds like the most likely scenario is that he knocked on the door asking to use the bathroom.
The document also claims that Meredith would never have returned to her bedroom while a man was still in the house. Oh, she wouldn't? How the hell do they presume to know absolutely what someone would or would not do? Maybe he was taking a long time or said he'd let himself out when he was done and so she just went back to doing what she was doing.
 
Foxy - not guilty of the charges but knows more than she says - it'll all come out on Oprah - fucking typical, The Deer Hunter event for the Facebook generation, another opportunity for the shmaltz obsessed Yanks to whine out how no one is as fair and free as them. All cool unless you're on death row for an even more slender tissue of evidence that the 'She Devil' suffered from.
She lied her tits off, I trust her like I trust a duck with SARS
 
hipipol said:
Foxy - not guilty of the charges but knows more than she says - it'll all come out on Oprah - fucking typical, The Deer Hunter event for the Facebook generation, another opportunity for the shmaltz obsessed Yanks to whine out how no one is as fair and free as them. All cool unless you're on death row for an even more slender tissue of evidence that the 'She Devil' suffered from.
She lied her tits off, I trust her like I trust a duck with SARS
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She even lied on the last day with her speech in which she says her and the victim were friends and that the victim worried about her.

Testimony from other flatmate totally contradicts this version.

If you look at the size of the flat, and have ever lived in a similar student type flatshare yourself, you will know what I mean. Knox admits she was a slob. There was friction.
 
Miss Caphat said:
I tried to stay away :(

But I can't help but point out something else. What exactly makes everyone so sure that Guede didn't stage the break-in himself? Maybe he came back later, after changing and showering. Maybe he was worried that someone saw Meredith letting him in*, and decided to stage the break in to make it look like an intruder did it. Guede's story was always that someone came in after he'd had consensual sex w/ Meredith and that the intruder killed her (which by the way is a very common story for rapist/murderers) so he needed to create some evidence that someone else did come in that night.

* By the way, I read (well, skimmed) up to about page 60 of the court document and was just sickened by the feeling that I was being told what to think, when often I found myself in total disagreement with the opinions masquerading as fact.
For example, there are a few pages about why Meredith would have under no circumstances opened the door if Guede had knocked on it. Based on her character of supposedly being "not open to fleeting advances"
I mean wtf does that have to do with opening the door when someone knocks on it? Someone she probably knew was friends with the guys downstairs. Sounds like the most likely scenario is that he knocked on the door asking to use the bathroom.
The document also claims that Meredith would never have returned to her bedroom while a man was still in the house. Oh, she wouldn't? How the hell do they presume to know absolutely what someone would or would not do? Maybe he was taking a long time or said he'd let himself out when he was done and so she just went back to doing what she was doing.
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You're right - there are infinite hypotheses about to what might have happened, and many perfectly feasible too. But we'll never know.

I really feel for the Kercher family, this must be a truly horrific experience for them. I don't think the frenzy of speculation will provide any answers :(

I hope it all dies down and the Kerchers get time to grieve and come to terms with it all without media intrusion...
 
dylans said:
I'm not sure what you are disputing or why. The claim that she was stabbed 47 times has been made by numerous sources, including her own father. Now of course this could be untrue and you may have some knowledge that this is incorrect in which case I will bow to your superior knowledge of the case. But you are not disputing that she was stabbed to death in a very brutal way with numerous stab wounds. So what is your point? My point was simply to point out that you don't stab someone to death, whether with one stab wound or a hundred without leaving a god awful mess that contaminates the perpetrators and that the claim that such a crime could occur without the perpetrator leaving any evidence of their presence is not credible.

As for the rape/ sexual assault claim. Again there is no dispute that she died resisting a violent sexual assault at the hands of Rudy Guede. Whether she died before she was raped or not is a mute point. Guede is serving a sentence for sexual assault as well as murder. Again I have to question your point? My point is simply to say that a violent sexual assault and murder is impossible without the perpetrator (s) leaving some evidence of their presence. A point you seem strangely reluctant to answer. There is NO evidence of any other perpetrator at the crime scene except Rudy Guede and that indicates that he is the lone perp.
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My point is that you are dismissing lurid allegations in one case whilst repeating them in the other. Why?

There is no physical evidence that contradicts Guede's story. That doesn't mean he isn't lying, but from the pathology evidence it is not possible to be sure that she was sexually assaulted.

If you'd read the pathology evidence in the Massei report you'd know that. And you wouldn't be making ridiculous statements about her being stabbed 47 times. And you'd not be making dismissive statements about the break-in being real, at least not without tackling the evidence that it wasn't.
 
ymu said:
My point is that you are dismissing lurid allegations in one case whilst repeating them in the other. Why?

There is no physical evidence that contradicts Guede's story. That doesn't mean he isn't lying, but from the pathology evidence it is not possible to be sure that she was sexually assaulted.

If you'd read the pathology evidence in the Massei report you'd know that. And you wouldn't be making ridiculous statements about her being stabbed 47 times. And you'd not be making dismissive statements about the break-in being real, at least not without tackling the evidence that it wasn't.
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Oh fuck off you insufferable cockhead. I do not have to plough through a 427 page English translation of the sentencing report to have an opinion on this case. Have you read it? In original italian i hope because i have a copy of the English translation in front of me now and it is virtually unreadable.
The claim of 47 stab wounds has been made by numerous sources including Kerchers own father and in a detailed report by former FBI forensic scientist Steve Moore who also dismisses as impossible the idea that such a killing could take place without considerable contamination. But then, I am sure such an expert on the case as yourself has read his very detailed report right. Right?

Nobody disputes that Meredith was fighting bravely for her life to her last breath. There were 46 wounds on her body consistent with such a struggle. With three persons wrestling and stabbing, it is impossible that contact blood transfer did not occur; on the feet, on the clothing and on the hands of any alleged perpetrator. Especially when fighting in the small confines of Meredith’s bedroom. And the footprints would occasionally overlap
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sorry, the figure was 46, my mistake

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html
 
Fedayn said:
All 46 were stab wounds? None bruises or scratches?
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46 wounds consistent with a fight for life

and have you read his report on the forensic evidence? he knows his stuff. Take 5 minutes to look at it, its pretty damning
 
So, you haven't (as you claimed) read the Massei report and you are, in fact, relying on an over-imaginative prosecutor and sensationalist media stories for your 'facts'.

You're still repeating the "stabbed 47 times" thing when you have the pathology evidence to hand but can't be arsed to read it. Fuck's sake. :facepalm:

Edit: or 46 times. It's variously been reported as 42, 46 or 47 wounds - not stab wounds. The fact that you are still misreporting this proves that you have not taken a serious look at the evidence presented in court. Why are you (correctly, IMO) dismissing the lurid allegations against Knox and Sollecito whilst repeating and embellishing them against Guede?
 
Close the thread now. The black guys in gaol not the innocent one of course and its perfectly clear that Foxy covered her ears to the screaming, wasn't there or was to stoned to remember why don't you idiots get that!
 
dylans said:
46 wounds consistent with a fight for life

and have you read his report on the forensic evidence? he knows his stuff. Take 5 minutes to look at it, its pretty damning
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I know, but 46 wounds is not 47 stab wounds as you claimed originally. And yes the difference is important.
 
ymu said:
So, you haven't (as you claimed) read the Massei report and you are, in fact, relying on an over-imaginative prosecutor and sensationalist media stories for your 'facts'.

You're still repeating the "stabbed 47 times" thing when you have the pathology evidence to hand but can't be arsed to read it. Fuck's sake. :facepalm:

Edit: or 46 times. It's variously been reported as 42, 46 or 47 wounds - not stab wounds. The fact that you are still misreporting this proves that you have not taken a serious look at the evidence presented in court. Why are you (correctly, IMO) dismissing the lurid allegations against Knox and Sollecito whilst repeating and embellishing them against Guede?
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Have you read it? All 427 pages?
 
dylans said:
Have you read it? All 427 pages?
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I've read all the passages that relate to evidence that I'm commenting on, yes. There aren't any other reliable English language sources. The media reports are all over the shop.
 
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