all roads lead to sedgley

[discokermit]

some ends of the lines i been following where i have gotten as far as i can for now,

edward webb, 1580, married frannces bury, born 1580 in ludlow. their child was born in brewood, staffordshire, which was making iron at the time. a few generations later they moved to forton, staffs, near newport, shropshire. the first of their ancestors born in sedgley was john webb in 1705.
frannces bury was the child of robert bury, 1542, and winifred hall, 1558. both born in shropshire.

ambrose hale and jane elwell were both born in sedgley in 1615. janes parents, william and anne were both born in sedgley in 1588. williams mother, dorothy daniel, was born in sedgley in 1575, so was thirteen when she became a mother.

thomas bate was born 1600 in sedgley. married als tompsone who gave birth to joan in 1636 in gornalwood, sedgley.

henry jevens was born 1515 in sedgley. married alice who was born 1520, sedgley.

prudence hinley, born 1741 in dudley, joined the sedgley lot when after marrying moses webb who was born in 1737 in sedgley.

thomas painter, born in burslem in 1723, moved to west bromwich and had a son, also thomas, in 1741. thomas junior married mary grainger from great barr and lived in wednesbury.

thomas hale, different hales to the previous ones, born 1720 in west brom, married hannah robinson, born 1740 in wednesbury.

john cartwright, 1760, wednesbury, married mary parkes, born 1763, wednesbury. marys grandfather, george, was born 1685 in wednesbury. her mother, martha parkes (stokes) was born in wednesbury in 1735.

william haynes, 1700, blockley worcestershire. this is the line with sheepstealing and transportation and eventually a coalmine in rushall then sedgley.
his son, richard rose haynes married anne handy, whose grandfather edward handy was born in blockley in 1670. her mothers parents, james marks and sarah cane were both born in temple, bristol, in 1675.

the tustins/tustens/tustons of broadway, worcestershire, though impoverished by the early nineteenth century may not always have been and settled in worcestershire. the furthest back i have gone is john tustin, born 1528, whose son john was born in london in 1548. johns son was born in 1568 in worcestershire.

isabell tayler, 1568, birlingham, worcestershire.

richard white, 1642, forthampton, gloucestershire.

the daunces go back to thomas more, 1478? the most recent saint in the family. cant be bothered to go further with those for a bit.

william richards, 1737, dudley, married mary, 1741, dudley and moved to sedgley where their son thomas was born in 1765. thomas married mary whitehouse who was born in sedgley in 1769.

benjamin richards, born 1721 in sedgley and married anne ross who was born in 1724 in sedgley. her parents, charles ross and sarah blakeway were both born in sedgley in 1700. sarahs mother was born in shropshire.

hannah parkes, 1761, tipton.

timothy woodhall, 1760, dudley.

ann sidaway 1758, dudley.

john hayes, 1812, woodsetton, sedgley.


hannah thomas, born 1778 in coseley, sedgley, married richard bowater born 1779 in wombourne.

sam parkes 1837, gornal, sedgley.

richard pugh, born 1720 in shropshire, married alice pughnot, also 1720 shropshire. they lived in hopesay in shropshire.

william pursell married mary wilkinson, they lived in whitchurch, shropshire and had a son, william, in 1672.

thomas ness was born in 1650 in shropshire, as was his wife jane.

william jacks was born 1620 in shropshire.

sam and rebecca gardner both born 1660 in shropshire.

william crowe, 1691, montgomery, powys (montgomeryshire)

humphrey humphreys, lol! born 1770 in llandyssil. humphrey humphreys married maggie morris in the church of st tyssil, llandyssil!

thomas middleton, 1737, llanbadarn fawr, powys (radnorshire), married elizabeth bayes, born 1733, also llanbadern fawr.

william anslow, 1715, stottesden, shropshire. he married alice hancock who was born in aston botterell, shropshire in 1720.

john morris born 1790 in presteigne, powys (radnorshire), married elizabeth of lapewaterdine, shropshire.

john cooper 1828, sedgley, was a coalminer who married ann, also born in sedgley. her father, joseph ward was born in bilston in 1793.


thomas brookes, 1821, oldbury, a miner, married sarah walker who was born in 1822 in rowley regis.



francis gilbert, 1637, married anne bagshawe. they were both born in staffordshire, i think near rugeley. by before 1722 the family was in west bromwich.


alice hadley,from hindlip in worcestershire was born in 1698.

elizabeth baker, 1720, stoke, coventry, warwickshire.


mary wild 1747, bulkington, warwickshire.


john bibb, 1742, west bromwich who married phoebe sitch, born 1745 in west bromwich.


maria mountain, 1803, west bromwich

joseph ingram, a miner, 1775, west bromwich, married mary tellons and they lived near where sandwell general hospital is now.


john stanley, miner, 1806, tipton.

thomas pritchard 1815, tipton. miner. his mother, elizabeth sheldon, was born in tipton in 1790. his dad william was also born, i think, in tipton, certainly staffordshire, in 1785.


martha morris was born in 1814 in tipton, on trial for murder the year after her husband thomas pritchard died. acquitted.


joseph cook was born in 1791 in kidderminster, moved to brierley hill nr dudley before 1822, when his son noah was born. miners, again, travelling from the worcestershire coalfield to the south staffs.


eliza briant, 1784, tipton

francis sifton, 1725, worcester. his great great grandson, benjamin sefton, would be born in dudley in 1855. benjamins mother was born in 1824 in dudley.

emma brookes, 1863, tipton.

john jones, 1818, old radnor. married jane, born 1828 in radnorshire.

thomas tongue/tong/tonge/tounge/tung born 1647 in ludlow.

thomas kite, 1660, clungunford, shropshire.

sarah mitchell, 1720, ludlow.

martha harris, 1745, ludlow.

thomas hammond, 1764, lingen, herefordshire.

anne bourton, 1765, diddlesbury, shropshire.

william morgan, 1733, llangwm, monmouthshire. his mother, sarah david, was born 1702 in goytre, monmouthshire.

joseph and elizabeth dunne were living in shropshire when they had their daughter elizabeth in 1754.

joe morgan and jemima hope were in blakemere herefordshire in 1765 when their daughter was born.

 

[discokermit]

the boat in this video, at two minutes ten and on, is the exact same boat ive been showing people round for one day a week before the lockdowns. running along the same stretch of canal my great grandad worked.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

so, the thread title is all roads lead to sedgley, but so far i am finding that most of the roads on my own personal map seem to start mainly in shropshire, followed by radnorshire, montgomeryshire, staffordshire and herefordshire, with a tiny bit of worcestershire, warwickshire and gloucestershire. if you map them out they seem to correspond with mercia and before that the land of the cornovii. both sides of the river severn.

i have been surprised to find nothing from brum, nothing from ireland, nothing east of coventry, very little east of the western side of the black country, nothing north of telford.
three of my grandparents have ancestors who all seem to come from the same small area on the border of shropshire, herefordshire, montgomeryshire and radnorshire.
also it seems to be almost entirely agricultural labourers, whos children became coal miners, then, as the work changed ironworkers (though one bit of the family seem to be ironworkers going back as far as i can, 1580.)

Yam as Black Country as they come chap! Iron in the soul...

 

[discokermit]

Yam as Black Country as they come chap! Iron in the soul...

an coal for brains.

 

[discokermit]

oh noes! i have discovered infiltrators from the dirty danegeld! stevyne southwick and margret stutherdaile of hedon, yorkshire! margret died in 1599. stevyne lived 1560-1640. their daughter isabell (1595-1642) born in hedon, married richard brettel (1572-1653) in oldswinford, which is now part of stourbridge. their child richard was born in kingswinford in 1617.
richard brettell senior had been born in romsley, halesowen, before his parents moved to cradley before 1585. the brettells had lived in romsley as far back as i have gone, which is richards great great grandfather, robert brettell, born in romsley sometime before 1497. romsley is about ten miles away from here.
richard brettell junior (kford 1617) married ann barnsley from tipton. their grandchild john hodgetts was born in west bromwich in 1680.
from there it went west brom - great barr - west brom - wednesbury- wednesbury - wednesbury - moxley - ettingshall, sedgley.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Great Barr eh Disco??!!

 

[discokermit]

Great Barr eh Disco??!!

born in great barr but doesnt look like they were there long, her parents were born in west brom and her children were born in west brom. not even hundred percent thats right as there are conflicting reports and she could have been born in west brom.
i just put it down to prove i wasnt a bigot. which i am.
every ancestor that comes from within a couple of miles of here, or west of here, i secretly do a little "yay!" in my head. the further east, the more uncomfortable i am.

 

[discokermit]

so, now im looking for lidar maps of deserted medieval villages in shropshire where my ancestors lived. places like aston botterell, bromfield, cound, forton and others. this is some rabbithole ive gone down.

 

[discokermit]

one of mine. no wonder i got no hair. Idwal Foel - Wikipedia

 

[discokermit]

and freckles, Merfyn Frych - Wikipedia

 

[discokermit]

morvidus, born before 341bc. Morvidus - Wikipedia
no wonder im always killing giants with trees and getting eaten by sea dragons. bad blood.

 

[discokermit]

when i posted before i hadn't read the thread through but now i have i'm impressed with your research and the success you've had going back centuries when most people would struggle going back to 1800. i know my opinion weighs lightly with you, but it's an amazing piece of work.

ta.

 

[discokermit]

picture of me preparing to fight some iron, like four of my uncles and three of my cousins.





heres my grandad (robert stanley) and great grandad (thomas) making iron, like my dad did, and living 1.8 miles from where i am now in bradley in the parish of sedgley.




my nan and other grandad, hilda and harold webb, he a maintenance fitter in a boilerworks, living less than half a mile away up and along the hill.

 

[5t3IIa]

You going to look into the transportee? It's fascinating stuff, just as grim but in the sunshine. This is good The Fatal Shore - Wikipedia

 

[discokermit]

my other nan, mary jones, fifteen and a shop assistant, her dad eli jasper jones, a weighbridge clerk, in princes end, tipton, 2.4 miles away,

 

[discokermit]

You going to look into the transportee? It's fascinating stuff, just as grim but in the sunshine. This is good The Fatal Shore - Wikipedia

of the two brothers, one transported, one, my ancestor, went down a coal mine. both died before they were fifty. like you say, just as grim but with sunshine.

 

[discokermit]

now i do some 1911 census returns.

john and sarah webb, parents of harold, john is a labourer on the canals and his wife is repairing canals,




and hilda webbs parents, james pugh, he a drillier of hurdles. on his army papers in 1914 he was listed as previously working as a navvie. his father, also james is listed as an excavator. notice one of the daughters is a japanner. they lived at hargreaves street, bilston, 2.3 miles away.



eli jasper jones was with his parents in leintwardine, shropshire, in 1911. the year he moved to the black country. his dad a farm labourer.



his future wife, mary anne price, was in myndtown, shropshire at the time.

 

[blossie33]

I don't know if this would be of any interest / use to you - posted by someone on the Birmingham History Forum today?

Free access to digital records - The National Archives

We are making digital records available on our website free of charge for the time being, while our reading room services are limited. Registered users will be able to order and download up to ten items at a time, to a maximum of 100 items over 30 days. The limits are there to try to […]

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

 

[discokermit]

I don't know if this would be of any interest / use to you - posted by someone on the Birmingham History Forum today?

Free access to digital records - The National Archives

We are making digital records available on our website free of charge for the time being, while our reading room services are limited. Registered users will be able to order and download up to ten items at a time, to a maximum of 100 items over 30 days. The limits are there to try to […]

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

i will check it out. ta!

 

[discokermit]

1901 census,

john webb is sixteen and working as a sheet iron worker, his dad sam, a labourer/docker, one brother a blacksmiths striker, the other a coremaker for iron moulding.


his future wife, sarah anne richards, was living in bradley with her coal hewing father, timothy. 2.2 miles away.



young james pugh is living with his parents elizabeth and james, a general labourer. living in derry street, blakenhall, wolverhampton at the time, which is 2.4 miles from here but was the next street over from where i lived up to the age of six.



florence, the future wife of james was a child in oldbury at the time, living with her mother harriet and father joseph brookes, who was a blacksmiths striker, (flo is on the next page)



thomas stanley the iron moulder was doing the same in 1901 as he was in the later census but his future wife, emily, was with her mother emma and father ben sefton, a chainmakers striker. pitfield street is 3.3 miles from here walking.

 

[discokermit]

There's some interesting sentences sometimes. I've just been reading reports of the Norwich Assizes from the 1850s e.g.:

Stealing a gun - one month imprisonment with hard labour
Stealing an old pair of trousers - three month imprisonment with hard labour
Stealing a plank (fourth offence) - transported for ten years

how about this for an interesting sentence,

Extract from the Wolverhampton Chronicle of Wednesday January 25th 1865
BOY SHOT BY ANOTHER – On Friday, Mr Phillips deputy coroner, held an adjourned inquiry at the Summerhouse Inn Gospel End, into the cause of the death of a boy named John Grainger aged thirteen years who died on Monday, from injuries received from the firing of a gun in his face by another boy name Rupert Hickman.
James Bagley a labourer residing at Gospel end stated that on the day preceding Christmas Day, he left his gun hanging up in his house. It was not loaded. On his return he found that his son had fetched it out, loaded it, and that the deceased had been shot.

James Bagley son of the above, deposed that on the 24th of December, he loaded his father’s gun with powder and shot, and placed it in the stable ready for use an left it in there uncocked.

Shortly afterwards he saw Hickman go into the stable and told him not touch the gun. The witness then saw it in Hickman’s hand, and cautioned him that he might do some mischief. Hickman thereupon replied that he could shoot as well as the witness and pointed it at him. In a minute after he heard the report of firearms, and found that the deceased was shot in the forehead.

There had been no quarrel, and witness did not think Hickman shot deceased purposely but considered it to be an accident. Hickman at the time seemed very sorry and rendered every assistance in his power to the poor sufferer. Hickman had shot a lad some time ago accidentally, but the lad did not die. The witness was positive the gun he left in the stable was not either full or half cocked. (The gun was produced and it was found that at full cock it would go off very easily). The jury considered the occurrence purely accidental, and returned a verdict accordingly. The Coroner cautioned the boy Hickman against the future incautious use of firearms.



so yeh, you could get a very lenient sentence. especially if your name was hickman, who i assume is from the same hickman family who hickman park in bilston is named after. colliery owners, ironmasters and little cock ends named rupert shooting people repeatedly and getting away with it. i say get away with it but he went to australia to become a schoolmaster so maybe the other hickmans hated him as well. heres one of the twats, Sir Alfred Hickman, 1st Baronet - Wikipedia

slightly linked, i did nine months of my yts scheme at hickmans timber yard. one day i had to take a note over to the offices. the door to the office seemed blocked so i heaved at it with my shoulder and unwittingly sent old man hickman, who was exactly like the grace brothers in are you being served, flying across the room. i was not offered a full time place at the end of the scheme but that was probably more to do with the stealing and skiving.

 

[discokermit]

Link: EAW001260 ENGLAND (1946). The industrial and residential area at Deepfields and Lady Moor, Bilston, 1946 | Britain From Above

View attachment 238970

The Deepfields Tragedy
The Shocking case of The Fatal Shooting of Mrs. Davies From Meadow Lane - Which Shook An Old Black Country Hamlet In 1890 known as 'THE DEEPFIELDS TRAGEDY'
This story give's detailed reports from 'The Daily Herald' and tells of the shooting of Mrs Davies, the mother of James Davies.

John Wise was born in 1857, he was the son of John and Jane Wise. He married Martha Glare, daughter of Joshua and Lydia Glare of Meadow Lane, Sedgley. By 1889 John had four children, Albert, William, John and Phoebe.

The couple's married life had been spent between houses in Ettingshall Road, Rookery Road and Meadow Lane, Deepfields. It was this last residence in August 1890 that events unfolded that were to become known locally as 'The Deepfields Tragedy'

On Saturday the 23rd August Martha Wise and their youngest child went missing from home, also a James Davies together with a substantial portion of John Wise's possessions, to the value of fifteen pounds, including a navy suit, two blankets, four sheets, two pairs of shoes, two silver watches, a silver chain and three pound cash. All the items were found to have been pawned as the tickets were later discovered.

John Wise bought a gun, then having failed to trace the couple he went to the house of Mr and Mrs Davies at Deepfields, the parents of his wife's lover to inquire as to whether they knew of their son's whereabouts. He had previously been on good terms with this couple. It is not certain what was said, but it ended with his shouting words to the effect of "If I had found them I would have served them like this" whereupon he produced a revolver from his pocket and fired, the bullet entering Mrs Davies's side. Running from the house she collapsed in the street. John Wise left the house, was seen to unbutton his waistcoat, turn the revolver on himself and pull the trigger. Although badly wounded he survivied the suicide attempt. Mary Daives was carried to the nearby Railway Tavern where injured too badly to be moved. Believing that he was about to die, John Wise asked for his sister. Mrs. Sarah Ann Simner to be summoned, requesting that she take care of the his children. He was later taken to Wolverhampton Hospital where the bullet was removed. News of the tragedy spread through the village like wildfire.

On the 19th August the inquest and inquiry upon the body of Mary Davies was opened at 'The Railway Tavern' Deepfileds. The inquest was adjourned until the following Thursday morning. Saturday 6th September 1890. The Adjourning Inquest Verdict of 'Wilful Murder' On Saturday Afternoon last, the unfortunate victim of the Deepfields Tragedy was laid to rest at Sedgley, and as was expected, the funeral attracted a very large number of spectators , though there was a entire absence of boisterous excitement. The inquest resumed on Thursday 4th September, hearing evidence from several witnesses, among them Thomas Williams who sold John Wise the cartridges, and PC Tittensor, stationed at Coseley, who had been well acquainted with Wise prior to the shooting. Perhaps the most informed witness was Mrs Sarah Butler of 31 Meadow Lane, Deepfields, neighbour to Mr and Mrs Wise who was able to recall for word arguments between Wise and his wife which she was able to hear 'through the crack in the wall'.

James Davies and Martha Wise were arrested on Wednesday 3rd September at Arch Street, Rugeley. They had taken lodgings there a week previously. James Davies finding work at Brereton Collery a day or two later.'They presented a somewhat smart appearance, especially the woman who it said to have outdone all her neighbours in the way of dress. On their arrest, both were taken into custody and charged with stealing certain goods belonging to John Wise. PC Tunnicliffe of Deepfields traced the couple following the receipt of an anonymous letter. 'Dear Mr Tunnicliffe, I think you will find Jim Davies and Mrs Wise at 26 Arch Street, Rugeley'. The identity of its author was never discovered.

Saturday 20th September 1890. A Further Remand.

'A large crowd again gathered outside Bilston Police Court yesterday where Martha Wise (23) wife of John Wise, ironworker of Rookery Road, Meadow Lane Deepfield, and James Davies (19) miner of Meadow Lane were charged with stealing several items of wearing apparel, two silver watches, a silver chain and other articles, property of John Wise, husband of the female prisioner. Mr Clarke said the prisoner (John Wise) was unable to be present to give evidence and therefore asked for another remand. The man unfortunately still in hospital. The magistrate granted the remand for a week, Davies's bail was renewed and Mrs Wise was retained in custody. When next they appeared John Wise said he wished to withdraw the prosecutions, (Mrs Wise on hearing this commenced crying) The bench abandoned the case, the defendants were bound over pending the consent of the Public Prosecutor to the withdrawal. Davies was bound over to his previous bail. Martha Wise on her father's surety of ten pound.

On the 10th October, John Wise was taken from Bilston to the county Gaol at Stafford.

The following entry appears in the Home Office Records-Calendar of Prisoners for 1890. Record HO 140/121 (Tried at the Autumn Assizes) Prisoner No 22. John Wise. Age 35. Steel Fitter. (R) Received into custody at Stafford 16th Oct. Charged on the 27th August 1890 at Sedgley with the wilful murder of Mary Davies, also charged the same on coroner's inquisition. Tried on 16th December 1890. Verdict - Not Guilty of Murder, but Guilty of Manslaughter. No previous convictions. Sentence - Imprisonment with hard labour for six days in HM Prison, Stafford. (Able to read)






my family lived in meadow lane at the time. also, my dad reckons there was still a family named wise living round there when he was a kid.

 

[discokermit]

thomas stanley junior, mentioned before, was the son of thomas stanley senior. thomas stanley snr was the nephew of john pritchard, here is a document showing the two of them on trial for stealing brass off an engine. tatting in the blood.

 

[discokermit]

thomas stanley the iron moulder was doing the same in 1901 as he was in the later census but his future wife, emily, was with her mother emma and father ben sefton, a chainmakers striker. pitfield street is 3.3 miles from here walking.

the seftons lived just off this road,

 

[discokermit]

joseph ward, blacksmith, ancestor, lived and likely worked here, goldthorn hill. the church just to the right of the tree on the left, is where i was baptised.

 

[discokermit]

thomas stanley junior. tatting in the blood.

just got reminded that thomas stanleys son, leslie, my grandads younger brother, went round a new housing estate round here in the night with a hacksaw and sawed off all the copper overflow pipes protruding from the wall for tat. legend.

 

[discokermit]

joseph ward, blacksmith, ancestor, lived and likely worked here, goldthorn hill. the church just to the right of the tree on the left, is where i was baptised.

upon further investigation it is not the church i was baptised in, which was built over a decade later, but may be the royal school. where eric idle went to school.

 

[discokermit]

ive had a couple of ancestors born out of wedlock but their parents usually married afterwards but it seems i have found an unmarried mother of two in my family tree, sarah davies, born in lydbury north, shropshire, in 1754,

 

[discokermit]

another transportation! my greatx5 granny, hannah parkes, probably a nailor, had a brother, this is a bit of his story.

Today's bustling Sydney suburb of Earlwood bears little resemblance to the rough and ready timber gatherers camp which was home to the suburb's first settler in 1829, when John Parkes and his family took up permanent residence on his fifty acre grant, first promised to him by Governor Lachlan Macquarie in 1816, though not officially gazetted until 1831. The tiny settlement hacked out of the rich stands of dense forest was in fact called Parkes Camp, a term then used to describe the base-camp of a gang of sawyers. The strange train of events which lead to John Parkes's unique place in Earlwood's history was set in motion in 1768 at Halesowen, a small English village just four miles from the city of Dudley in 'The Black Country" of Worcestershire, when John was born the son of Esther and Isaac Parkes. Worcestershire's Black Country was so named for it's ironworking history dating back to the sixteenth century, and the great predominance of the area's cottage-based iron working industry came about because of the district's rich deposits of iron-ore, limestone, and clay. Together with most of the able-bodied men of his village John had learned the art of making nails from the tender age of five or six, when necessity and customs of the time pressed him into pumping the bellows on his father's forge.
John's Crime.
Wandering in the City of Dudley in 1797, caught up in the social upheaval of the Industrial Revolution and with winter closing in, John Parkes altered the entire course of his life when he was caught stealing a warm beaver coat from the shop of John Grimestone. He was arrested and taken to the City of Worcester where he stood trial at the Worcester Lent Assizes that year.
The charge read:
"The Jurors for our Lord the King upon their oath present that John Parkes (guilty) late of the Parish of Dudley in the County of Worcester Labourer on the eleventh day of February in the thirty seventh year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord George the third King of Great Britain and with Force and Arms at the parish a foresaid the Great Coat called a Beaver great coat of the value of sixteen shillings of the goods and chattels of John Grimestone in the shop of the said John Grimestone, then and there privately and feloniously did steal take and carry away against the peace of our said Lord the King his Crown and Dignity."
Sentenced to seven years transportation on the eleventh of March 1797, John spent eight months either in prison or worse still on one of the many rotting prison hulks, then cluttering up most of the English sea-ports.
Portsmouth was John's last sight of the not so merry England of 1797, when he finally left his homeland aboard the Thames-built ship "Barwell" (796 tons). In response to repeated requests from Governor Phillip, the Barwell's load of 295 male convicts had been specially selected as felons with a useful trade, and among the picked complement of convict-artisans was John Cadman of Bewdley, later of Cadman's cottage Sydney Cove.
The struggling Colony of New South Wales was just ten years old and desperately short of food, clothing and tradesmen when the Barwell brought all three into Port Jackson on the eighteenth of May 1798. The worried Colonists must have rubbed their eyes in disbelief when the Barwell hove into view with her precious and long awaited cargo, for this was the first ship to sail into their harbour for twelve miserable months. Many of the Barwell's convict-tradesmen were assigned to work at the Government Dockyards in the fledgling boat-building industry then springing up at Sydney Cove, and among this group was John Parkes who soon became known as "Perks the Nailor" before completing his seven-year term at the Dockyards in 1803. In a manner of speaking John Parkes was at last a free man.

 

[discokermit]

three of his sons became bareknuckle boxing champions in australia.