Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished

[kebabking]

Training and arming the Afghan army? Don't know whether that would make any difference though.

We've been doing that in various forms since 2002.

There's huge variation in quality and motivation, every unit and area is different, and there are competing power structures behind them.

There's pretty much no operational depth in the ANA - they have a fighting capability, which in some units/areas is excellent, and in others little more than dandelion heads on the wind - but they simply don't do things like technical support, so all the helicopters the US gives them break down after a few weeks and never fly again.

Rampant corruption doesn't help.

There's a much bigger elephant in the room which has been talked about since 2002: is there such a thing as Afghanistan the country, a state/nation/society with wide buy-in, or is just a place on a map between other countries?

I verge more towards the latter than the former, but I also see a very well developed sense - as last displayed in late 2001 - of sensing which way the wind is blowing, and thinking that it's better to live to fight another day.

Last time I was in Kabul I met lots of young, educated people who see themselves as Afghans just as I see myself as British, but out in Helmand, or Kandahar or Khost, I met few Afghans, but most simply had no visceral feeling of being part of the same society as people in Herat or whatever.

 

[Pickman's model]

We've been doing that in various forms since 2002.

There's huge variation in quality and motivation, every unit and area is different, and there are competing power structures behind them.

There's pretty much no operational depth in the ANA - they have a fighting capability, which in some units/areas is excellent, and in others little more than dandelion heads on the wind - but they simply don't do things like technical support, so all the helicopters the US gives them break down after a few weeks and never fly again.

Rampant corruption doesn't help.

There's a much bigger elephant in the room which has been talked about since 2002: is there such a thing as Afghanistan the country, a state/nation/society with wide buy-in, or is just a place on a map between other countries?

I verge more towards the latter than the former, but I also see a very well developed sense - as last displayed in late 2001 - of sensing which way the wind is blowing, and thinking that it's better to live to fight another day.

Last time I was in Kabul I met lots of young, educated people who see themselves as Afghans just as I see myself as British, but out in Helmand, or Kandahar or Khost, I met few Afghans, but most simply had no visceral feeling of being part of the same society as people in Herat or whatever.

you only need to see how people in north and south london view each other to know the attitude you describe has echoes here

 

[gosub]

I think it goes without saying, we should never have been there in the first place.

No, I've more time for the justification for attacking Afghanistan than I do Iraq , however, if the taliban had been awarded more faux respect and diplomatic jaw-jaw caried on longer before, their then attitude to opium farming the drought would have fucked them.

 

[Yossarian]

out in Helmand, or Kandahar or Khost, I met few Afghans, but most simply had no visceral feeling of being part of the same society as people in Herat or whatever.

At least the US/UK kept their word about it not being a nation-building exercise.

I feel sorry for anybody who made the mistake of working for them and will now face Taliban reprisals - after 20 years of involvement, not counting the years supporting the mujahedeen against the Soviets, they're walking away saying "Hey, it was broken when we got here."

 

[Yossarian]

In the US, veterans are calling it "Vietstan."

'We lost': Some U.S. veterans say blood spilled in Afghanistan was wasted

Jason Lilley was a special operations forces Marine Raider who fought in multiple battles in Iraq and Afghanistan during America's longest war.

www.reuters.com

 

[yield]

In the US, veterans are calling it "Vietstan."

'We lost': Some U.S. veterans say blood spilled in Afghanistan was wasted

Jason Lilley was a special operations forces Marine Raider who fought in multiple battles in Iraq and Afghanistan during America's longest war.

www.reuters.com

"We should avoid war at all costs," Lilley said. "Don't rush into the racket of war, into the machine of making money, contracts. A lot of people made a lot of money off of this."

He said it took him years to let go of his anger.

"I mean I knew what I was getting into, I mean I grew up on 'Rambo.' I wanted to honor my family in the sense my grandfather fought in World War Two, I wanted to go down that same route and do the selfless thing, but it turns into reality quickly."

Wimmer said of Afghanistan: "By any metric you choose to measure it, it was a fruitless effort. Getting rid of al Qaeda or the Taliban - we didn't succeed. Increased peace and prosperity for the Afghan people? We didn't succeed.

"In the process we sacrificed a lot of wealth, we sacrificed a lot of time, we sacrificed a lot of lives, not just American lives, but coalition lives and especially Afghan lives, to walk away essentially having accomplished not a lot. That's a really hard thing to stomach."

 

[Yossarian]

Canada has started a new resettlement program for interpreters and others whose lives will be at risk as the Taliban marches to victory. The catch - they only have 3 days to apply.

But prospective applicants for the resettlement program learned today that they have just three days to submit their applications, which require the completion of multiple online forms and the scanning of documents.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-afghanistan-interpreter-applications-1.6121118

 

[Humberto]

Just so ungrateful and dishonourable for the Nato countries to leave them and their families behind. Sickens me.

 

[gosub]

Just so ungrateful and dishonourable for the Nato countries to leave them and their families behind. Sickens me.

Was an open letter in The Times from pretty much all the top ex military this week calling for more to be taken....there are efforts , but yeah

 

[Flavour]

the only question is how long it will take the Taliban to take over the whole country, I think. Looking like they could take Laskhar Gah and Kandahar this month. The Afghan army seems to be disintegrating.

 

[spring-peeper]

Canada has started a new resettlement program for interpreters and others whose lives will be at risk as the Taliban marches to victory. The catch - they only have 3 days to apply.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-afghanistan-interpreter-applications-1.6121118

Canada pulled out of Afghanistan back in 2014, so there are less interpreters.

Yoss seemed to be concerned that the three day window was too small.

Last week, the federal government announced that those wishing to come to Canada only had 72 hours to do apply, which Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan later said was a “mistake.”

"This is a crisis, there's people's lives at risk and there's no time for half-baked plans," retired corporal Tim Laidler, now executive director of the Institute for Veterans Education and Transition at the University of British Columbia, told The Canadian Press earlier this week.

First flight of Afghan refugees who helped CAF arrives in Canada

The first 'of a number of flights' carrying Afghan refugees who helped Canadian military personnel while deployed in Afghanistan has arrived in Canada.

beta.ctvnews.ca

The first “of a number of flights” carrying Afghan refugees who helped Canadian military personnel while deployed in Afghanistan has arrived in Canada.

In a statement on Wednesday evening, the federal government did not disclose how many refugees were on an evacuation flight that landed in Canada, but that more flights will be arriving in the coming days and weeks.

“We committed to do right by the Afghans who supported Canada’s mission in Afghanistan. With the arrival of the first resettled Afghan refugees in Canada, we are making good on that promise,” a spokesperson for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada wrote in a news release.

The Afghans arriving in Canada helped the Canadian military during a 10-year deployment in the country during the Afghanistan war, but are now in danger due to a resurgent Taliban threat in the area.

The Canadian government said that each of the refugees have met the “eligibility, admissibility and security screenings” required to enter Canada. They have all been tested for COVID-19 and will follow Canada’s quarantine requirements.

“To help the Afghans adjust to life in Canada, service provider organizations in communities across Canada are preparing to welcome them,” the statement read. “Settlement organizations will help them to find permanent housing, language training, a job and connections with established immigrants and Canadians and provide them with the information that they need about life in Canada.”

 

[TopCat]

Major blow to Afghan gov’t as Taliban captures provincial capital

Zaranj, capital of southern Nimruz province, falls to the group in a significant setback for the Afghan government.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Pickman's model]

the only question is how long it will take the Taliban to take over the whole country, I think. Looking like they could take Laskhar Gah and Kandahar this month. The Afghan army seems to be disintegrating.

I read recently the Taliban are assassinating Afghan air force pilots so wouldn't be surprised if they're doing something similar to army officers or their families. The Taliban will be able to claim mission accomplished within a few months I reckon

 

[TopCat]

The Brit embassy issuing the get out now while you can notice yesterday was ominous.

 

[platinumsage]

 

[brogdale]

The West clearly think it's China's turn, now.

 

[ska invita]

There'll also be plenty of US trainers/contractors/weapons/special forces to defend the airport and other installations which the Americans care about, e.g. dams, and to protect American civilians working for aid and development agencies. S

+ "air suport" which i guess means drones dropping bombs

 

[not-bono-ever]

Mess

 

[TopCat]

Mess

Predictable though. Most or all foreign invaders in Afghanistan leave, battered, the country just rubble made smaller.

 

[Flavour]

Kabul by Christmas?

 

[TopCat]

Kabul by Christmas?

Before.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Easily by Xmas I reckon but obviously dependant on level of external support and hardware provided by USA. In a previous instalment of the Afghan conflict, the incumbent held onto Kabul for the thick end of 3 years after the USSR departure

 

[David Clapson]

There's a lot of money tied up in Kabul. Property values rocketed when Nato were there. Aid agencies were charged astonishing rents...higher than London. The Afghan diaspora invested huge sums in building projects. They had faith that the country had a future. What with Western fears about Afghanistan becoming a base for international terrorists again, I find it hard to imagine that the US will abandon Kabul and the airport. I think they'll find an excuse to garrison it. There are lots of expensive fortifications already there. It would be very galling to just give them to the Talibs. And if that looks likely, all the educated Afghans will leave and make a new life elsewhere. Lots of them are already leaving.

 

[TopCat]

This account by Afghan govt reminds me of “Chemical Ali” in the Iraqi war for Baghdad.

Afghan official Q&A: What next amid new Taliban offensive?

Al Jazeera speaks to Ahmad Shuja Jamal, an Afghan National Security Council official, as Taliban makes big gains.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[TopCat]

Taliban capture sixth provincial capital in northern Afghanistan

Fighters overrun Aibak without meeting resistance, leaving pro-government forces in region cut off

www.theguardian.com

 

[TopCat]

Afghanistan | Today's latest from Al Jazeera

Stay on top of Afghanistan latest developments on the ground with Al Jazeera’s fact-based news, exclusive video footage, photos and updated maps.

www.aljazeera.com

Ninth city captured. They certainly seem to have strategic momentum.

 

[TopCat]

The Afghan govt on the brink of letting the militias loose. I suspect, this time around, that the potential Northern Alliance will not form. Not only that, they will get demolished.

 

[Pickman's model]

The Afghan govt on the brink of letting the militias loose. I suspect, this time around, that the potential Northern Alliance will not form. Not only that, they will get demolished.

Yeh, I think this will be an utter disaster, not sure there are any inspirational leaders like Ahmad Shah Massoud opposing the Taliban now

 

[Pickman's model]

Afghanistan | Today's latest from Al Jazeera

Stay on top of Afghanistan latest developments on the ground with Al Jazeera’s fact-based news, exclusive video footage, photos and updated maps.

www.aljazeera.com

Ninth city captured. They certainly seem to have strategic momentum.

And each captured city will undermine government forces' will to fight

 

[Pickman's model]

There's a lot of money tied up in Kabul. Property values rocketed when Nato were there. Aid agencies were charged astonishing rents...higher than London. The Afghan diaspora invested huge sums in building projects. They had faith that the country had a future. What with Western fears about Afghanistan becoming a base for international terrorists again, I find it hard to imagine that the US will abandon Kabul and the airport. I think they'll find an excuse to garrison it. There are lots of expensive fortifications already there. It would be very galling to just give them to the Talibs. And if that looks likely, all the educated Afghans will leave and make a new life elsewhere. Lots of them are already leaving.

Filed alongside the Americans will never let Saigon fall