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Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished

I think the Taliban are much more likely to start shooting randomly than the Americans, possibly at the Americans who started shooting back and people were caught in the crossfire.
None of these stories are from faintly credible sources, they could very well be true of course but the Americans are in no position to invesigate, the Taliban won't be interested and even if they were, the truth is hardly likely to a priority.
 
I think the Taliban are much more likely to start shooting randomly than the Americans, possibly at the Americans who started shooting back and people were caught in the crossfire.
None of these stories are from faintly credible sources, they could very well be true of course but the Americans are in no position to invesigate, the Taliban won't be interested and even if they were, the truth is hardly likely to a priority.
True story. I have been shot at by American soldiers more than any other organisation. I’ve been shot at by Americans soldiers I was actually co-located with. They are capable of absolutely extraordinary fuck ups and over kill. I’d stake my shirt on the Americans unloading recklessly into a crowd
 
Oh please. Give the guy a break. He, from what I can tell, did absolutely everything he could to get as many people out as possible. He is not a dick. He had his staff ready to go, in the airport, when the bombs went off. They then had to return to their little office in the city centre, and couldn't get back. They tried, the fuckwits would only allow him and their animals through.

I think he's a top bloke and I'd rather he saved dogs than people.
 
Is it OK to use the "D" word? Although there is a legacy of 20 years improving lives, the West was defeated. I'm listening for the "D" word but wonder if it has been banned from the BBC etc?
 
Is it OK to use the "D" word? Although there is a legacy of 20 years improving lives, the West was defeated. I'm listening for the "D" word but wonder if it has been banned from the BBC etc?
It's been avoided for years. The UK was militarily defeated in Afghanistan years ago, as they were in Iraq. I heard an honest discussion of it one time only on Radio 4, in one of those in-depth discussion shows where they consider a wider range of viewpoints than the news programs. But in the mainstream output? No, you do not hear the word. I'm sure it's not banned, just the self-propagandisation about Britain, it's role in the world etc, doesn't allow it to be thought about as a valid framing.
 
Raab should really resign over this or if he won't he should be sacked, but of course that won't happen either. :mad:


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No it’s not Raab’s fault the sea was closed. We’ve all been there haven’t we. Places to go, people to see, but then finding out the sea is closed. Can’t be helped.
 
Lisa Nandy on LBC just now saying the government estimates the number of people who had helped the British who had been left behind is around 800, whilst she spoke with 50 Labour MPs who between them have names of >5000 - those people are at very real risk of serious harm, thanks to Raab doing nothing at all in the 18 months he's had to prepare for this. Then refusing to cut his holiday short or even to make one fucking phone call whilst on holiday, this has to be one of the gravest ministerial failings in a very long time, how is he not sacked, ffs?
 
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Lisa Nandy on LBC just now saying the government estimates the number of people who had helped the British who had been left behind is around 800, whilst she spoke with 50 Labour MPs who between them have names of >5000 - those people are at very real risk of serious harm, thanks to Raab doing nothing at all in the 18 months he's had to prepare for this. Then refusing to cut his holiday short or even to make one fucking phone call whilst on holiday, this has to be one of the gravest ministerial failings in a very long time, how is he not sackwed, ffs?

Because BoJo the clown has no backbone.
 
Because BoJo the clown has no backbone.

It's a deliberate strategy - by only having useless no marks in cabinet he ensues that it's always their fault, not his, and he also ensures that no one in cabinet looks like a better bet as PM than him.

The downside is that the backbenches are full of very unhappy MP's who dispair of both him and his cabinet, and that they see a good handful of fellow backbenchers who would do a lot better.
 
Lisa Nandy on LBC just now saying the government estimates the number of people who had helped the British who had been left behind is around 800, whilst she spoke with 50 Labour MPs who between them have names of >5000 - those people are at very real risk of serious harm, thanks to Raab doing nothing at all in the 18 months he's had to prepare for this. Then refusing to cut his holiday short or even to make one fucking phone call whilst on holiday, this has to be one of the gravest ministerial failings in a very long time, how is he not sacked, ffs?

yeah but it’s all Bidens fault. And cats and dogs. just keep saying that. Pretty much what Andrew Castle has been saying on LBC this morning. The knob.
 
It's a deliberate strategy - by only having useless no marks in cabinet he ensues that it's always their fault, not his, and he also ensures that no one in cabinet looks like a better bet as PM than him.

The downside is that the backbenches are full of very unhappy MP's who dispair of both him and his cabinet, and that they see a good handful of fellow backbenchers who would do a lot better.
I dunno if it's even that strategic. He doesn't care if he does a good job himself, so why would he care if others do a good job? If doing a bad job (or his ministers doing a bad job) got him in trouble of course he'd take a stronger line on it, but in general it gets him promoted - and good polling. The media ecosystem in this country has a lot to answer for.
 
It's a deliberate strategy - by only having useless no marks in cabinet he ensues that it's always their fault, not his, and he also ensures that no one in cabinet looks like a better bet as PM than him.

The downside is that the backbenches are full of very unhappy MP's who dispair of both him and his cabinet, and that they see a good handful of fellow backbenchers who would do a lot better.
It must be heartbreaking for Dom, spend all that time creating a cabinet of incompetent spivs ( not so much junior ministers) so you can rule absolutely through your puppet then have that machine taken off you by a woman- as he would see it.

It will be funny fir a bit when the wrath of the story party falls round their ears, trouble is they might then get another term…
 
No it’s not Raab’s fault the sea was closed. We’ve all been there haven’t we. Places to go, people to see, but then finding out the sea is closed. Can’t be helped.

Knowing Raab he probably tried sending a fleet of ships to Afghanistan to rescue everyone, before someone told him the sea there is closed permanently.
 
This was an interesting read on the day Kabul fell - apparently things could have worked out very differently if the cowardly Ghani hadn't fled the country the minute aides told him he might be in danger, and if Biden hadn't been intent on sticking to the withdrawal date at all costs.

In a hastily arranged in-person meeting, senior U.S. military leaders in Doha — including McKenzie, the commander of U.S. Central Command — spoke with Abdul Ghani Baradar, head of the Taliban’s political wing.

“We have a problem,” Baradar said, according to the U.S. official. “We have two options to deal with it: You [the United States military] take responsibility for securing Kabul or you have to allow us to do it.”

Throughout the day, Biden had remained resolute in his decision to withdraw all American troops from Afghanistan. The collapse of the Afghan government hadn’t changed his mind.
McKenzie, aware of those orders, told Baradar that the U.S. mission was only to evacuate American citizens, Afghan allies and others at risk. The United States, he told Baradar, needed the airport to do that.

On the spot, an understanding was reached, according to two other U.S. officials: The United States could have the airport until Aug. 31. But the Taliban would control the city.


 

This is ridiculous. How can we pressure the Taliban?

Well the sepctics have all Afghanistan's money, so we can politely ask them to poltiely ask the taliban to be a bit less the taliban for a bit.

Provided there's no easily marketable commodity the taliban now control vast quantities of, which they can sell to raise funds whenever they feel like it, leaving only the rest of Afghan society to be impoverished by sanctions.
 
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