Biden is out of order to say 'they wouldn't fight for themselves'. 10s of 000s of ANA soldiers died thinking they would be supported, that there would be a competent chain of command and that they had allies to support them. The problem was, as with our own country's soldiers, they were led by donkeys that were only ever interested in their own political advancement and feathering their own nests. I hope the country can at least see an end to war on the scale we have seen there for the last however many years and decades.
Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished
- Thread starter toblerone3
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mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
There's a radio station I like in Kabul called Salam Watandar. The music is still on (I hope it stays on) but it has changed. Not for the worse, but there is a distinct lack of women's voices singing, today compared to last time I listened a couple of weeks ago. And my Pashto is nonexistent, but I recognize Koran verses being sung and translated when I hear them. That didn't use to happen.
Dubious this
They are the ones that continued to produce heroin with CIA backing. Basiclly narcos. Not surprising they are flexing now.
A NATION CHALLENGED: DRUGS; Most Afghan Opium Grown In Rebel-Controlled Areas (Published 2001)
United Nations study indicates that most opium grown in Afghanistan this year was in areas controlled by rebel group Northern Alliance; opium harvests in Taliban-controlled areas plummeted after ban by Taliban, however, both factions appear to be heavily involved in, and financed by, drug trade (M)
gosub
~#
Think its more complicated than that. I don't think Afghans see the place as a Nation. Sort of like bunging the Europeans a couple of thousand landrovers and expecting them to put there life on the line to keep the EU a thing.
They DID put their life on the line. 60000 soldiers died. Why more pointless, protracted bloodshed?
I was against the war in Afghanistan and against the occupation of the country. Seems somewhat churlish to then also be against the withdrawal of Western forces with the exception of what an absolute calamity it's been.
Change is driven from the bottom up. Awful thing about that region is the dominant bottom up philosophy is Wahhabism.
Atleast dogs don't wage wars
I don't know if anyone has posted this already, but here's some footage of some Afghan women very bravely protesting against the Taliban:
Colin Hunt
Active Member
That's not true. The Taliban are Deobandi, and the bottom up 'philosophy' relies on flexible and (male) consensus-based honour code structures such as the Pashtunwali. If pressed, most Afghans would label themselves as Hanafi Sunnis (apart from the Hazara who are Shiite), but as the majority of the country is illiterate any engagement with the sources of Hanafi jurisprudence by tribal councils (or even by Taliban-appointed officials) has traditionally been rare.
gosub
~#
The sole German plane to leave Kabul last night, an A400M cargo plane that normal carries 116 troops, but could in extremis, carry perhaps 300, took off carrying 7.
Yes, 7.
It's not just that it took 7 when it could have taken 300, it's that it took up a landing slot that someone else could have used, and maybe took an air-to-air refuelling slot that someone else could have taken, and then a landing slot in Kuwait or wherever.
[/QUOTE]
First German plane evacuated only 7 people from Kabul Had initially suspected the 7 were a skelton embassy staff which would have been right cuntish. As is sounds like special forces hot deployment . That they did n't have sufficient trust in their awareness of the situation on the ground they kind of demonstarted in only interfacing with 7 with over 20 minutes on the ground. Totally SNAFU but fair enough, get impression German troops were gone already, glad to have them assisting reinforcing the rear guard.
Yes, 7.
It's not just that it took 7 when it could have taken 300, it's that it took up a landing slot that someone else could have used, and maybe took an air-to-air refuelling slot that someone else could have taken, and then a landing slot in Kuwait or wherever.
[/QUOTE]
First German plane evacuated only 7 people from Kabul Had initially suspected the 7 were a skelton embassy staff which would have been right cuntish. As is sounds like special forces hot deployment . That they did n't have sufficient trust in their awareness of the situation on the ground they kind of demonstarted in only interfacing with 7 with over 20 minutes on the ground. Totally SNAFU but fair enough, get impression German troops were gone already, glad to have them assisting reinforcing the rear guard.
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
I've read several claims that many ANA soldiers hadn't even been paid since March. Can't find a good source but would go some way to explain a lack of motivation, if true.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Looking for news of Afghanistan came across this German documentary. Its Afghan women talking of growing up in Afghanistan. Several lived through the whole period from before the war started to now. Mainly women from better off families based in Kabul. Some became politicians and some had to leave.
I got into it. Its moving picture of how war affects women and society.
One points out women were used by both sides politically. Both the communist and Islamicists.
One women dressed as a man to go out to work and feed her family in first Taliban rule.
Its also good as short history of recent Afghanistan. Plenty of footage from different periods. From 60s onwards. Country also looks beautiful. It was on the hippy trail at one point.
The women say that initially back in 1996 the Taliban were welcomed as they ended the violence and fighting between different Mujahideen groups. It was only after they took power that people ended up fearing them. Due to the brutal rule.
They had the same hopes when the US and its allies toppled the Taliban. But the same old warlords came back. Political and economic corruption flourished. Leading to resurgence of Taliban.
The doc is based on Kabul women. One thing is that the urban and rural areas were completely different. Kabul was westernised and some people were relatively well off. Rural areas were very poor.
One woman said she was stuck between a brutal communist government that was arresting hundreds of people and the Islamicist opposition who wanted to remove any gains that women had made.
Did find it moving. Its not that Afghans have no sense of nation or are inherently tribal. What happened in Afghanistan was a failed modernisation. If I get the women right it was down to outside intervention and internal failure to be able to move the country forward.
One thing I liked about it was that the doc makers let the women talk. You don't see the doc makers.
I got into it. Its moving picture of how war affects women and society.
One points out women were used by both sides politically. Both the communist and Islamicists.
One women dressed as a man to go out to work and feed her family in first Taliban rule.
Its also good as short history of recent Afghanistan. Plenty of footage from different periods. From 60s onwards. Country also looks beautiful. It was on the hippy trail at one point.
The women say that initially back in 1996 the Taliban were welcomed as they ended the violence and fighting between different Mujahideen groups. It was only after they took power that people ended up fearing them. Due to the brutal rule.
They had the same hopes when the US and its allies toppled the Taliban. But the same old warlords came back. Political and economic corruption flourished. Leading to resurgence of Taliban.
The doc is based on Kabul women. One thing is that the urban and rural areas were completely different. Kabul was westernised and some people were relatively well off. Rural areas were very poor.
One woman said she was stuck between a brutal communist government that was arresting hundreds of people and the Islamicist opposition who wanted to remove any gains that women had made.
Did find it moving. Its not that Afghans have no sense of nation or are inherently tribal. What happened in Afghanistan was a failed modernisation. If I get the women right it was down to outside intervention and internal failure to be able to move the country forward.
One thing I liked about it was that the doc makers let the women talk. You don't see the doc makers.
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bimble
floofy
You know who has a PHD in anthropology? the guy who was installed as President, up until Sunday. Not a very useful degree.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
Neither do most humans.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I wonder how mad we must look to a part of the world where they won't even let dogs inside the house.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Didn't work out too well for Michael Bhatia in the end either.
Salready happened.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Post Kabul?
I misunderstood the comment, but there has been some helicopter fire in recent days.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Firing from or at helicopters and who?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not really bombing is it. Do you mean pre- or post- the fall of Kabul?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's like drawing teeth, isn't it
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