Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished

[TopCat]

Shadow Foreign Secretary Lisa Nandy said: "It beggars belief that in the face of all that, the [UK] government has been so slow to respond.

"What we need to hear now is an actual strategy from the government."

 

[kebabking]

2 PARA at, or near, the airport have had some contact (shooty, not chatty) with incoming Taliban, however probable that's the result of friction or excitement rather than plan.

There's definitely at deal - Ghani has been evacuated from pres palace, 'transitional government' coming into place, Karzai gets some role (remember he's the tribal chief of the same tribe that Baradar, the dep head of Taliban and their chief negotiator is a senior member of), and Baradar has flown in from Qatar.

 

[LDC]

Shadow Foreign Secretary Lisa Nandy said: "It beggars belief that in the face of all that, the [UK] government has been so slow to respond.

"What we need to hear now is an actual strategy from the government."

TBH, listening to Nandy and Starmer about this neither has suggested anything of any substance at all for this.

 

[kebabking]

TBH, listening to Nandy and Starmer about this neither has suggested anything of any substance at all for this.

Yup, just vacuous twats. If people wonde why Johnson et al get a free ride from the electorate, it's this kind of transparently empty showboating from Lab that's the answer.

Neither of these two were saying two weeks ago that we needed to evacuate, nor were they pushing for a reinforcement of NATO forces supporting the ANA.

Just twats.

 

[weltweit]

I find it disheartening how the Afghan government seems to have just surrendered in the face of a Taliban which didn't seem so numerous. I wonder how many of the other cities just rolled over rather than face fighting on their streets. Whatever else, the Afghan army didn't do much.

 

[Sprocket.]

Lisa Naivety.

 

[Torpid Scorpion]

I find it disheartening how the Afghan government seems to have just surrendered in the face of a Taliban which didn't seem so numerous. I wonder how many of the other cities just rolled over rather than face fighting on their streets. Whatever else, the Afghan army didn't do much.

It’s basically a surrender without a fight. This is why it’s even more vile that all the papers are baying for us to go in and kill some more people.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

2 PARA at, or near, the airport have had some contact (shooty, not chatty) with incoming Taliban, however probable that's the result of friction or excitement rather than plan.

Twitchy fingered 2 Para, wouldn’t expect owt else from them tbh.

 

[kebabking]

I find it disheartening how the Afghan government seems to have just surrendered in the face of a Taliban which didn't seem so numerous. I wonder how many of the other cities just rolled over rather than face fighting on their streets. Whatever else, the Afghan army didn't do much.

Afghan militaries - and I use the plural deliberately - aren't really for fighting, they are for demonstrating strength and power, enabling the tribal leadership to get a better deal.

 

[Sprocket.]

Afghan militaries - and I use the plural deliberately - aren't really for fighting, they are for demonstrating strength and power, enabling the tribal leadership to get a better deal.

It’s the plethora of tribal differences within Afghanistan that western politicians have never realised the importance of that has caused so many problems for the military coalition.
Making Kabul the centre of all administrative decisions was doomed to failure from the start twenty years ago.

 

[bimble]

80 per cent of the half a million or so people who are reckoned to have fled their homes & be seeking any kind of safety or way out, are women and their children. How can that be. Radio just said. Where are the men just sat at home ?

It’s like a real life but worse version of handmaids tale. It’s completely heartbreaking. My brain can’t begin to imagine it just stops, too terrifying. There’s a little group I know from my work, they will be amongst these women who are desperately trying to get out, I think.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Afghan government is sending a delegation to Qatar today, to meet with leaders of the Taliban.

 

[IC3D]

Doesn't the US effectively pay the wages of the Afghan army. Its not surprising they folded the instant Biden said they were pulling out with all their air support, supplies.

 

[bimble]

Taliban spokesman interviewed on radio 4. Asked if stoning women & chopping off hands for theft etc would be the law. Said that’s a matter for the courts and the new legal system.Did not bother attempting to give the impression that he even wanted to say no.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Had the past 20 years not happened what would Afghanistan look like now?

 

[platinumsage]

Much if it has officially "disappeared"

$45 Billion in Tax Dollars Goes Missing in Afghanistan

Hundreds of millions of dollars are missing in action in Afghanistan, and auditors are blaming the Pentagon’s fl

www.thefiscaltimes.com

The US seems to think that wasn’t enough:

 

[elbows]

TBH, listening to Nandy and Starmer about this neither has suggested anything of any substance at all for this.

Their lack of plan to parachute Tony Blair straight into the heart of the action, so he can stand up for the values he used to justify war a few decades ago, is a disappointment.

 

[not-bono-ever]

in a previous life, i ued to have to analise this kind of stuff- it was useful to view is through the optic (urgh) of legitimacy - assumed or expected- from the peers and possible mates- this is gonna be key here - do the talib expect their regime to have a degree of legitimacy ? everything follows from this

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Their lack of plan to parachute Tony Blair straight into the heart of the action, so he can stand up for the values he used to justify war a few decades ago, is a disappointment.

If that was official policy Labour would win a landslide…

 

[elbows]

in a previous life, i ued to have to analise this kind of stuff- it was useful to view is through the optic (urgh) of legitimacy - assumed or expected- from the peers and possible mates- this is gonna be key here - do the talib expect their regime to have a degree of legitimacy ? everything follows from this

When they end up being considered the only viable option, fig leafs of legitimacy are not hard to manufacture. Values, our flexible friend.

 

[Humberto]

Had the past 20 years not happened what would Afghanistan look like now?

You have take into account the massive loss of lives due to fighting as a starting point.

 

[not-bono-ever]

i agree obvs. this is why i didnt assume that the airport would be shelled or expattery evac hassle would be a priority. eta, still time though

 

[TopCat]

in a previous life, i ued to have to analise this kind of stuff- it was useful to view is through the optic (urgh) of legitimacy - assumed or expected- from the peers and possible mates- this is gonna be key here - do the talib expect their regime to have a degree of legitimacy ? everything follows from this

I would say so and expect efforts to show they are not all barbarians all of the time.

 

[elbows]

If that was official policy Labour would win a landslide…

Its tempting to find some Blair Afghanistan speeches and quote bits that have an ugly resonance given the current events.

 

[Hollis]

 

[teqniq]

Its tempting to find some Blair Afghanistan speeches and quote bits that have an ugly resonance given the current events.

Someone is already on the case:

 

[TopCat]

The few flights are all full and many airlines cease operations today.

 

[teqniq]

Apologies if this has already been posted (originally tweeted 12/08). In a very fast-moving situation it's already out of date, however still worth a watch imo.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not the only one wonders to what extent neoliberalism killed Afghanistan's chances of recovery from the Taliban https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/167203/Neoliberal_St_(BMC)_FINAL.pdf

Thanks for this. What it says goes with couple of news reports I watched. Journalists under Taliban supervision visiting Taliban held rural areas.

No one on camera was going to criticise Taliban.

However what came across was perception of locals that western aid had not got to the poor rural areas. Basic stuff like running water, roads.

Aid had been diverted to larger urban cities.

As the article points out nothing had been done to decrease inequality.

People complained that under official government you had to pay bribes to get things done.

Rural areas were lawless before Taliban take over

Taliban were at pains to say they wanted to end this corruption, bring development to neglected rural areas and enforce a rough and ready egalitarianism.

Western bombing of rural areas had caused some to have more sympathy for Taliban. Even if attitude to women and banning western music didn't.


So article is right the so called market ked reforms that aid was based on made bad situation worse.

The article does talk of land reform being necessary. I didn't see this in the two TV news reports.

It's also I thought something that led to opposition to the first communist regime. They tried to bring in land reform.

So I wonder if Taliban would do this.

 

[elbows]

Someone is already on the case:

Here is an article from October 2001 which also briefly features Biden.

Blair's vision for Afghan future

Tony Blair last night admitted the west abandoned Afghanistan to its fate after the ejection of the Russians from the country two decades ago and promised some form of elections in the country once stability is restored.

www.theguardian.com

In a BBC World Service interview, the second he has given for broadcast to Muslims in the regions in two days, Mr Blair promised: "We are not going to walk away again. We made that mistake in the past.

"Once the conflict is over, we have then got to sit down with the people in Afghanistan and try and work out a stable and coherent plan for the future.

"At the end of the 80s and early 90s we, in a sense, walked away from the people of Afghanistan after the Russians had left," Mr Blair said. "We should have put together a rescue plan for Afghanistan."

Mr Blair's remarks reflect the Washington mood, where the senate foreign relations committee chairman Joe Biden has called for $1bn US spending as a downpayment. He said: "If we had not lost interest, perhaps Afghanistan would not have turned into a swamp of terrorism."