About the 20mph speed limit in Wales built up areas? Which goes live tonight..

[platinumsage]

Completely this. If you pushed to the limits on some stretches you are just gambling. National speed limit on narrow roads with passing places? Nuts.

It’s not nuts, a limit is a limit for that class of road, not a guide as to the appropriate speed to drive on that particular stretch of road, which you should be able to judge for yourself.

 

[weltweit]

I think it's important to reduce speeds in towns, but I don't have a problem with fast motorways that are dedicated to motor vehicles.

I don't like the so called smart motorways with no hard shoulder. The M4 is like this now in some stretches, don't like it at all.

 

[Hollis]

 

[eatmorecheese]

It’s not nuts, a limit is a limit for that class of road, not a guide as to the appropriate speed to drive on that particular stretch of road, which you should be able to judge for yourself.

I think that's the adjustment I'm still making after the more regulated London environment I'm used to.

 

[8ball]

I don't like the so called smart motorways with no hard shoulder. The M4 is like this now in some stretches, don't like it at all.

Me neither. Death traps.

 

[weltweit]

Me neither. Death traps.

I don't know what they were thinking of .. just stupid .. of your vehicle fails perhaps a blow out you need to make it to safety as quickly as possible. It is hard enough to navigate the traffic to get to a hard shoulder but at least if there is a hard shoulder there is a modicum of safety if you can get there but on the "smart" motorways that is now a slow lane filled with HGVs .. scary

 

[weltweit]

Anyhow back to the 20mph limit in Wales, I am sure I can get used to it.

And as pointed out earlier in the thread traffic means I am not very likely to be able to go faster than that in a built up area anyhow.

I decided some time ago to try to drive within the speed limits on all roads and it took a lot of stress out of driving and made it a more relaxing experience all round.

Many years ago I used to be a traveling salesman and then I was always rushing to get to the next appointment on time which usually meant speeding, especially on motorways. I always had points on my licence and was always on the nervous look out for speed traps. The arrival of mobile phones eased things slightly because I could at least call on ahead to warn people if I was going to be late but it was constant stress for about the ten years I worked in that role.

These days I give myself plenty of time for my travels, I don't commit to an exact ETA and everything is much more relaxed.

 

[hitmouse]

I'm just impressed this is real, I first heard about it last night from someone who'd gone on some kind of driving course (in England, not Wales) where he said his instructor said something about "this weekend they're going to change all the speed limits in Wales but I'm not meant to tell anyone", and "I heard someone tell me that they're going to change all the speed limits in Wales this weekend" sounds like such a classic piece of made-up bollocks. That's the last time I doubt the truth of something someone I don't really know says that someone else told them.

 

[weltweit]

I heard it on the Radio

Mark Drakeford making the announcement, and then being quizzed about it and then some time later I also heard Penny Mourdant claiming it was MAD and anti motorist then I heard more about it on Any Questions.

 

[8ball]

Will it apply to cyclists?

 

[a_chap]

Will it apply to cyclists?

Yes.

When driving their cars, it will apply to cyclists.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I decided some time ago to try to drive within the speed limits on all roads and it took a lot of stress out of driving and made it a more relaxing experience all round.

Good to hear you decided to follow the law on speed limits.

 

[Plumdaff]

It's not been secret, it's been all over the press, certainly in Wales.

A good rule of thumb on transport policy is if Westminster hate it you might be on to something.

 

[tim]

Slow the fuck down.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/motor-vehicle-safety-issues/speeding/

The first set of fatality statistics you give are from the USA, which is why they're almost ten times higher than the second set. The decontextualised nature of their presentation undermines the point you are trying to make.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Will it apply to cyclists?

Will it apply to pedestrians?

What about seagulls?

 

[weepiper]

Will it apply to cyclists?

Speed limits are and always have been for motor vehicles.

 

[Gromit]

They missed an opportunity here to encourage more people onto public transport.

Let buses do 30mph but keep cars at 20mph.

 

[hash tag]

I heard somewhere this will hit productivity. FFS the counter to that arguement is to let everyone drive at say 50 to increase productivity

 

[danny la rouge]

They missed an opportunity here to encourage more people onto public transport.

Yes. Always.

Let buses do 30mph but keep cars at 20mph.

No.

 

[SpookyFrank]

They missed an opportunity here to encourage more people onto public transport.

Let buses do 30mph but keep cars at 20mph.

You get that buses and cars use the same roads right?

 

[Elpenor]

cars at 15mph, buses at 20mph if you want to encourage public transport

 

[Gromit]

You get that buses and cars use the same roads right?

If you banned taxis from bus lanes then buses could actually get to utilise that 10mph advantage.

 

[kebabking]

They missed an opportunity here to encourage more people onto public transport.

Let buses do 30mph but keep cars at 20mph.

Bollcks.

Firstly that would fundamentally undermine the driving force of this idea, that it's about safety - you can say that it's not safe for a 1000kg lump of steel to travel at 30mph in a built up area, but that it is safe for a 9000kg lump of steel to move at 30mph in a built up area.

Secondly, everyone knows it's crap - if cars and lorries are restricted to 20mph, then anything moving behind them - the bus, in this instance - is also going to be traveling at 20mph, except of course that the bus won't, because it will stop every 400m so people can get on and off.

It will slow traffic, all traffic, down - and that's fine.

 

[Gromit]

Bollcks.

Firstly that would fundamentally undermine the driving force of this idea, that it's about safety - you can say that it's not safe for a 1000kg lump of steel to travel at 30mph in a built up area, but that it is safe for a 9000kg lump of steel to move at 30mph in a built up area.

Secondly, everyone knows it's crap - if cars and lorries are restricted to 20mph, then anything moving behind them - the bus, in this instance - is also going to be traveling at 20mph, except of course that the bus won't, because it will stop every 400m so people can get on and off.

It will slow traffic, all traffic, down - and that's fine.

It would be interesting to compare accident rates between giant easily viewed vehicles, driven by professionally trained and regularly reviewed drivers Vs vehicles they let practically any idiot drive so long as they drive it decently during a brief test.

 

[platinumsage]

It would be interesting to compare accident rates between giant easily viewed vehicles, driven by professionally trained and regularly reviewed drivers Vs vehicles they let practically any idiot drive so long as they drive it decently during a brief test.

Buses are more lethal to pedestrians per vehicle mile than cars.

 

[editor]

The first set of fatality statistics you give are from the USA, which is why they're almost ten times higher than the second set. The decontextualised nature of their presentation undermines the point you are trying to make.

The point about speed and safety is universal. Cars going faster do more damage when they hit humans.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Bollcks.

Firstly that would fundamentally undermine the driving force of this idea, that it's about safety - you can say that it's not safe for a 1000kg lump of steel to travel at 30mph in a built up area, but that it is safe for a 9000kg lump of steel to move at 30mph in a built up area.

Secondly, everyone knows it's crap - if cars and lorries are restricted to 20mph, then anything moving behind them - the bus, in this instance - is also going to be traveling at 20mph, except of course that the bus won't, because it will stop every 400m so people can get on and off.

It will slow traffic, all traffic, down - and that's fine.

The answer is obvious - just ban private cars and the buses will flow freely.

 

[T & P]

Will it apply to cyclists?

Don’t be silly. Never mind traditional cyclists- London is now full of highly illegal non-pedalling e-bikes doing 25mph+, and you will sooner see the sun rise from the west than the rozzers ever stopping one of them. Even as they jump red lights, which upwards of 80% of them do regularly.

But that’s absolutely fine, because Newton’s laws of motion don’t apply if you get hit at 25 mph by an 85 kg bloke riding a 25 kg machine if he happens to be propelled to such speeds by an electric motor rather than an infernal combustion engine. I feel sorry for all the poor sods who deliver food for a living on those evil ICE small mopeds. What a waste of time and money having to put up with mandatory training, vehicle excise duty, and third party insurance, or being fully accountable for any Highway Code violations, when they could just get an illegal 30 mph electric ‘bicycle’ and enjoy de facto immunity from prosecution for any and all traffic violations. With the added bonus of enjoying full travel rights through all LTNs, and with most anti-car safety campaigners looking the other way if not actively saluting your chosen form of transportation

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Don’t be silly. Never mind traditional cyclists- London is now full of highly illegal non-pedalling e-bikes doing 25mph+, and you will sooner see the sun rise from the west than the rozzers ever stopping one of them. Even as they jump red lights, which upwards of 80% of them do regularly.

But that’s absolutely fine, because Newton’s laws of motion don’t apply if you get hit at 25 mph by an 85 kg bloke riding a 25 kg machine if he happens to be propelled to such speeds by an electric motor rather than an infernal combustion engine. I feel sorry for all the poor sods who deliver food for a living on those evil ICE small mopeds. What a waste of time and money having to put up with mandatory training, vehicle excise duty, and third party insurance, or being fully accountable for any Highway Code violations, when they could just get an illegal 30 mph electric ‘bicycle’ and enjoy de facto immunity from prosecution for any and all traffic violations. With the added bonus of enjoying full travel rights through all LTNs, and with most anti-car safety campaigners looking the other way if not actively saluting your chosen form of transportation

Yawn.

 

[T & P]

Yawn.

I am genuinely interested: assuming you are in favour of 20 mph zones everywhere in urban areas, are you really not concerned at all that some road users are exempt in all but name from observing that speed limit because they happen to ride a vehicle powered by a non-fossil fuel type of energy? Healthy and young people have been killed by traditional pedal cyclists doing 15 mph. Do you really have no problem with users of illegal unassisted powered so-called bicycles being subject to the same speed restrictions? Certainly if the ultimate aim is a net zero casualty rate.