Not telling the insurance company about points?

[platinumsage]

The thing is, if you don't disclose something that you're supposed to, they'll just void the policy and refuse to pay out. So you're effectively uninsured. And if you get into an accident that's your fault, you'll be on the hook for paying for all the damages/compensation.

This isn't true. If there is a policy on the vehicle at the time of the accident, the insurer is obligated to provide third-party cover, regardless of whether they later decide to invalidate the policy for whatever reason. So, if you materially lied, they might not pay for damage to your car, but would still pay £1 million for your victim's lifelong disablement.

 

[Spymaster]

This isn't true. If there is a policy on the vehicle at the time of the accident, the insurer is obligated to provide third-party cover, regardless of whether they later decide to invalidate the policy for whatever reason. So, if you materially lied, they might not pay for damage to your car, but would still pay £1 million for your victim's lifelong disablement.

I don't think this is right. Again it would turn on the extent of the misrepresentation. If you lied about a few points the consequences would probably be light (unless those points resulted in a driving ban), but if you were disqualified and lied about that, or didn't tell them about multiple drink driving convictions, they can treat the policy as if it didn't exist. It would be legally very odd if they were obliged to honour a contract that was obtained through seriously fraudulent means.

 

[platinumsage]

I don't think this is right. Again it would turn on the extent of the misrepresentation. If you lied about a few points the consequences would probably be light (unless those points resulted in a driving ban), but if you were disqualified and lied about that, or didn't tell them about multiple drink driving convictions, they can treat the policy as if it didn't exist. I can't see why they'd be obliged to honour a contract that was obtained through seriously fraudulent means.

It is right because Section 151 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 obliges insurers to pay out to third parties "notwithstanding that the insurer may be entitled to avoid or cancel, or may have avoided or cancelled, the policy or security".

 

[mojo pixy]

It is right because Section 151 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 obliges insurers to pay out to third parties "notwithstanding that the insurer may be entitled to avoid or cancel, or may have avoided or cancelled, the policy or security".

Then they'll claim it back from the driver (or whoever it was that lied or omitted on the documentation) as they are entitled to do by the same section of the same law. So ultimately, the insurer will not pay, the uninsured party will.

 

[neonwilderness]

IIRC Admiral are the only ones to demand you tell them about speed awareness courses, though they have no legal way to know if you've done one if you don't tell them.

They don't (or didn't last time I did it) ask when you get a quote on their website, but if you need to speak to them for whatever reason they specifically ask about it. They did it to me a few years ago, it didn't make much difference to the price but still

 

[Spymaster]

Then they'll claim it back from the driver (or whoever it was that lied or omitted on the documentation) as they are entitled to do by the same section of the same law. So ultimately, the insurer will not pay, the uninsured party will.

That's assuming they have any money to reclaim.

I'm actually astonished that an insurance company (or any business) can be forced to honour a contract that is fraudulently obtained, and that they wouldn't have entered into had the full facts been disclosed.

I'll have a proper read later but according to that, a 10 year old kid could falsify documents to obtain insurance on someones car, crash it into a neighbour, and the insurer would be liable for the neighbour's losses. Bonkers.

 

[Riklet]

Can you appeal the points and ask to do a course first?

Id tell them asap if not.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Can you appeal the points and ask to do a course first?

Id tell them asap if not.

To late. I've paid.

I don't think 3 points should make much difference to insurance and I don't exactly get them often (well not for a lot of years) so it should be OK.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Can you appeal the points and ask to do a course first?

Id tell them asap if not.

You can't ask to do a course ever, they either invite you or they don't.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

You can't ask to do a course ever, they either invite you or they don't.

Unless you're Suella Braverman...

 

[Spymaster]

Unless you're Suella Braverman...

Ahh, now she didn't ask to do the course. It was offered to her. What she asked is whether she could do it in private, which is apparently very common for celebrities and is usually agreed to. Storm in a teacup, this one.

 

[kabbes]

I’m actually astonished that an insurance company (or any business) can be forced to honour a contract that is fraudulently obtained, and that they wouldn't have entered into had the full facts been disclosed.

I’m going to resist the urge to give a 1000 word lecture and merely note that insurance is not just like other contracts.

 

[Spymaster]

I’m going to resist the urge to give a 1000 word lecture ...

I'd genuinely welcome the insight.

 

[kabbes]

I will say, however, that insurance litigation can be a lucrative field for everybody involved, including any expert witness actuaries that happen to be knocking about.

 

[kabbes]

I'd genuinely welcome the insight.

There is a public protection angle, a consumer duty angle, an information asymmetry angle, lots of angles. For something like third party motor insurance, society takes a view that SOMEBODY has to pay for damages. That somebody might as well be a massive insurance company that is professionally responsible for understanding the risks it is taking on. If it ends up misinsuring consumers, maybe it needs better risk control mechanisms in place to identify the problems and protect itself.

 

[kabbes]

On the other hand, if you’re a multinational company and you intentionally misled a panel of insurers in order to place your 10m xs 5m layer of general liability… well, good luck in court.

 

[existentialist]

That's assuming they have any money to reclaim.

I'm actually astonished that an insurance company (or any business) can be forced to honour a contract that is fraudulently obtained, and that they wouldn't have entered into had the full facts been disclosed.

I'll have a proper read later but according to that, a 10 year old kid could falsify documents to obtain insurance on someones car, crash it into a neighbour, and the insurer would be liable for the neighbour's losses. Bonkers.

I am wondering if what is being confusing here is the insurance industry's obligation to, effectively, insure uninsured drivers. This is done via the "Motor Insurers' Bureau", which is a cartel of insurance companies who underwrite uninsured losses.

Motor Insurers' Bureau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sasaferrato]

There are some things in life that are so important that you do not take the slightest chance with them.

Car insurance falls into this category. If you get points, tell them straight away, if you are convicted of a motoring offence, tell them.

Consider the outcome if you kill or seriously injure someone whilst driving, and due to you failing to disclose relevant information, your insurance company refuses to pay.

Can you fund a several million pound payout because the person you hit needs round the clock care for the rest of their life? No, I didn't think you could.

Car insurance is not something to fuck about with, if in doubt, call the insurance company.

 

[neonwilderness]

Coincidentally Admiral emailed me earlier asking me to provide my driving license number "to keep my account up to date". The very graciously weren't going to charge an admin fee to do this, but would if any other details were changed at the same time (presumably they would have double checked everything as they've done before when I've contacted them)

In small print at the bottom it said doing this was optional, so I've just ignored it

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I’ve always been suspicious about the need of tell them of an accident that wasn’t your fault- certainly if it’s a minor one with no injuries and minor repairs paid by the other party. I wouldn’t put it beyond them to increase your premium for it

had one of those no fault incident last year, bottom line was my car is a (n insurance) write off and I got twice the amount I paid for it from the other party who wouldn't deal with it on a friendly basis, still works fine and will do for years as well. I still need to change that passenger door (about £70 from a breaker yard but I can't get the correct colour).

 

[hash tag]

Coincidentally Admiral emailed me earlier asking me to provide my driving license number "to keep my account up to date". The very graciously weren't going to charge an admin fee to do this, but would if any other details were changed at the same time (presumably they would have double checked everything as they've done before when I've contacted them)

In small print at the bottom it said doing this was optional, so I've just ignored it

I have spent some time over my last few nights trawling for new motor quotes and many of the insurers now ask for driving licence number and
say that your premiums might be reduced as a result of providing this ( not sure how true that is 0.
Anyway, no one could beat my renewal quote from Admiral. This not withstanding, I have just spoken to them and tweaked my policy details ( all factual )
and they have reduced my premiums by nearly £75. I tried to get my Alfa registered as a classic car ( restricted use and all that). They no longer offer
a classic car option, just limited mileage.

 

[Dogsauce]

They don't (or didn't last time I did it) ask when you get a quote on their website, but if you need to speak to them for whatever reason they specifically ask about it. They did it to me a few years ago, it didn't make much difference to the price but still

I did one years ago, and on the course itself they were quite specific that you didn’t have to tell your insurer. That was one of the selling points of such courses. I do remember when renewing there was a question about whether you‘d been on a driver awareness course, but the thing I’d been on wasn‘t called that (think it was worded as ‘speed awareness course’) so I was technically correct in saying no I hadn’t . Tbh the course made me a better driver so they should have reduced the price anyway.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Just think, you drivers could avoid getting points by simply not exceeding the speed limit. That would solve a lot of hassle all round.

 

[Elpenor]

Just think, you drivers could avoid getting points by simply not exceeding the speed limit. That would solve a lot of hassle all round.

Amazing how easy it is to do this by simply using your eyes

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Just think, you drivers could avoid getting points by simply not exceeding the speed limit. That would solve a lot of hassle all round.

Preposterous!

 

[Sasaferrato]

On a general motoring note.

If your car is not taxed your breakdown people might not come out:

Car tax mix-up led to us being stranded at the roadside

Our rescue service refused to help us with a flat tyre after it discovered that our vehicle excise duty had expired

www.theguardian.com

I wasn't aware of that, and I went untaxed for three weeks because they didn't send a reminder. What I did get was a 'Why haven't you paid or SORN'd your car?'. three weeks later. I paid immediately.

 

[existentialist]

Just think, you drivers could avoid getting points by simply not exceeding the speed limit. That would solve a lot of hassle all round.

Dammit, why did nobody tell us this before?

 

[Griff]

I have spent some time over my last few nights trawling for new motor quotes and many of the insurers now ask for driving licence number and
say that your premiums might be reduced as a result of providing this ( not sure how true that is 0.
Anyway, no one could beat my renewal quote from Admiral. This not withstanding, I have just spoken to them and tweaked my policy details ( all factual )
and they have reduced my premiums by nearly £75. I tried to get my Alfa registered as a classic car ( restricted use and all that). They no longer offer
a classic car option, just limited mileage.

Try Footman James, I use them for my Amazon and Chimaera and they're pretty good. Not garaged, agreed values (without photos) and limited mileages (5k combined).

 

[hash tag]

Try Footman James, I use them for my Amazon and Chimaera and they're pretty good. Not garaged, agreed values (without photos) and limited mileages (5k combined).

I missed them this time around but tried several comparison sites as well as individual sites. One quote came up at £1000 for the CX3 alone.
The average for the CX3 & the GTV was around £850 but Admiral came it at just over £500.

 

[Griff]

I missed them this time around but tried several comparison sites as well as individual sites. One quote came up at £1000 for the CX3 alone.
The average for the CX3 & the GTV was around £850 but Admiral came it at just over £500.

Shit!

Can't remember exactly but I think I pay less than £500 for both cars and that's with an East London postcode.