A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Artaxerxes]

It is the natural border. It would not have given the Republicans an advantage. But it would be in keeping with treating both Republicans and Unionists fairly, in accordance with the power sharing spirit of the GFA. And the EU is not part of the UK.

"Natural border" tell me you know nothing about Northern Ireland without saying you know nothing about Northern Ireland

 

[Barbary]

Of course parliament is undemocratic, the upper house contains 92 people there because they are hereditary peers and hundreds of men and women who are elevated to serve for life without ever facing an electoral test while in the lower chamber politicians vote as told by their party, not their constituents. Oh and all laws have to be approved by an unelected monarch who gets to have a say on any laws that might affect their interests.

The electorate are part of the democratic system. Whatever the flaws are in our system, any system that can operate without the electorate being able to remove government is making the system even more flawed.

 

[Pickman's model]

The electorate are part of the democratic system. Whatever the flaws are in our system, any system that can operate without the electorate being able to remove government is making the system even more flawed.

But you still haven't given a real answer to why you feel the referendum was a democratic vote. With your vaunted belief in democracy that's surely not hard

 

[Barbary]

"Natural border" tell me you know nothing about Northern Ireland without saying you know nothing about Northern Ireland

You know perfectly well where the political border is between the ROI and NI. It ain't in the sea.

 

[bimble]

Is this what someone looks like when they’re happy they won something, very strange prize brexit is.

 

[Barbary]

But you still haven't given a real answer to why you feel the referendum was a democratic vote

I have given an answer. Why do you think it wasn't.

 

[ska invita]

You know perfectly well where the political border is between the ROI and NI. It ain't in the sea.

And so why has the (so far incomplete) attempt to create a border ended up in the sea?
Is it because of .....REMAINERSs who haven't studied as hard as you?

 

[Barbary]

Is this what someone looks like when they’re happy they won something, very strange prize brexit is.

As a Brexit voter, I'm obviously glad.

 

[two sheds]

I like this idea that we have democratic elections with the right wing media and huge financial backers getting behind the right wing party every election.

 

[Pickman's model]

I have given an answer. Why do you think it wasn't.

Because it was utter shite, tbh. A callow teenager would have been ashamed of its inadequacy. Are you a callow teenager?

 

[Barbary]

And so why has the (so far incomplete) attempt to create a border ended up in the sea?
Is it because of .....REMAINERSs who haven't studied as hard as you?

If I suggest having the border on land - the reactions to that will tell you. But I think the sea border is stupid.

 

[Barbary]

Because it was utter shite, tbh.

Well, I'm sure that explanation works for you.

 

[bimble]

As a Brexit voter, I'm obviously glad.

what are you cross about?

 

[Barbary]

I like this idea that we have democratic elections with the right wing media and huge financial backers getting behind the right wing party every election.

Vote with your own head, whatever that leads to choose.

 

[Barbary]

what are you cross about?

Nothing about the vote. What do I appear to be cross about?

 

[Artaxerxes]

You know perfectly well where the political border is between the ROI and NI. It ain't in the sea.

Oh so now it's a political border not a natural border I see.

 

[bimble]

Nothing about the vote. What do I appear to be cross about?

you seem very angry and its something to do with brexit but i cant make out what.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, I'm sure that explanations works for you.

Let's remind ourselves of what you said

It was held in the UK, people voted, it changed the situation, it was established as democratic, by the UK parliament.

So in your view all votes in the UK are democratic, all votes where people vote are democratic, all votes that change the situation are democratic and parliament said it was democratic. But you haven't challenged my view that the UK is not a democracy, you haven't adduced any evidence of that at all. There are votes in China where people vote and the situation changes, yet you don't seem to think China a democracy. And I've addressed the democracy of the UK parliament above.

So I ask again, what makes the 2016 referendum in your view a democratic vote?

 

[Barbary]

Oh so now it's a political border not a natural border I see.

As far as politics go, it is the natural political border.

 

[Pickman's model]

As far as politics go, it is the natural political border.

No it isn't. It encloses 6 of the 9 counties in the province of ulster. It severs eg donegal from its neighbour of derry. It's massively affected the economies of both polities in Ireland. There were no political borders in Ireland until a century ago so if it was in any way natural it'd have been there rather longer

 

[Artaxerxes]

As far as politics go, it is the natural political border.

There's no such thing. All political borders are artificial

 

[Artaxerxes]

Double post

 

[Barbary]

Let's remind ourselves of what you said

So in your view all votes in the UK are democratic, all votes where people vote are democratic, all votes that change the situation are democratic and parliament said it was democratic. But you haven't challenged my view that the UK is not a democracy, you haven't adduced any evidence of that at all. There are votes in China where people vote and the situation changes, yet you don't seem to think China a democracy. And I've addressed the democracy of the UK parliament above.

So I ask again, what makes the 2016 referendum in your view a democratic vote?

All voting is not necessarily part of a full democratic system. The Chinese vote, you wouldn't hold that up an ideal democratic system. Voting in elections for an MEP does not count as belonging to a full democratic system.

And you haven't answered the question - would you condone the indefinite government of the Tories?

 

[ska invita]

great well done everyone, its 11am, time to do some work. i think we've all learned something this morning

 

[Barbary]

There's no such thing. All political borders are artificial

Is that right. Tell the Scottish they're wrong to think there's such a thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

All voting is not necessarily part of a full democratic system. The Chinese vote, you wouldn't hold that up an ideal democratic system. Voting in elections for an MEP does not count as belonging to a full democratic system.

And you haven't answered the question - would you condone the indefinite government of the Tories?

Hold your horses, let's finish with the democratic vote claim first. And I'm not seeing anything which supports your claim about the 2016 exercise. Come on, you must have some grounds for your claim given the amount of thought you claim to have had on the subject of brexit

 

[Barbary]

No it isn't. It encloses 6 of the 9 counties in the province of ulster. It severs eg donegal from its neighbour of derry. It's massively affected the economies of both polities in Ireland. There were no political borders in Ireland until a century ago so if it was in any way natural it'd have been there rather longer

You need to argue in the here and now. But, I think you'll find that Henry II invaded Ireland in the 12c. You'll find the Irish invaded Scotland. You'll find the Saxon, Danes and Normans invaded England. You'll find the Scottish invaded England. The Romans.

 

[Barbary]

Hold your horses, let's finish with the democratic vote claim first. And I'm not seeing anything which supports your claim about the 2016 exercise. Come on, you must have some grounds for your claim given the amount of thought you claim to have had on the subject of brexit

I offered you an answer. I'll have one from you, now. You think the 2016 was shitshow, and undemocratic. I disagree. Now, about the lifetime Tory government option?

 

[Barbary]

There are few natural borders in Ireland and none between the 6 and 26 cos

Here, now, politics. You do appreciate the EU has an autonomous border around the EU countries. It is because of that, that the EU are members of the WTO.

 

[Barbary]

Ah. The 'You pissed on our chips argument'.

Fine. I see you're loving Brexit.