A thank you to Brexiteers.

[bimble]

This has always been a weird bit for me to try to understand, that with the referendum of 2016, uniquely, everyone in the country is supposed to 'respect' and get behind the choice of the winning side on that day 7 years ago, failing to do so makes you an anti democratic waitrose wanker etc etc.
But nobody's ever once told me that i have to respect & support the idiotic tory that my neighbours here put in place as my representative, or even any of the governments we've enjoyed during my lifetime none of which i voted for. Why is the referendum uniquely special in this way?

 

[Barbary]

I don't think you can really have a democratic vote in a country which isn't really a democracy. But go on, tell me what made the 2016 referendum a democratic vote as opposed to an undemocratic vote.

The referendum was a democratic vote. Parliament didn't have to agree, it was not binding. Parliament did agree. It is undemocratic when you can't fire a government - the EU

 

[philosophical]

You're arguing re-joiner tripe. You disagree with a democratic vote. I don't disagree with a democratic vote. There's a difference. And I voted to have a vote on the government. The rest of the people in the EU are stuck with what we had - no vote on government.

You are mistaken. The people in the EU definitely vote on the governance of the EU.
Maybe clunky, and not streamlined to fit your taste, but at the end of the day the EU is a democratic system.

 

[Pickman's model]

The referendum was a democratic vote. Parliament didn't have to agree, it was not binding. Parliament did agree. It is undemocratic when you can't fire a government - the EU

How was the referendum a democratic vote?

 

[two sheds]

I quite like the idea that, if the vote had gone for Remain but things had gone disastrously since then and a lot more people now wanted to leave, then people who voted remain would be saying we shouldn't have another referendum and the people who voted leave would be saying we should have another referendum.

 

[Barbary]

This has always been a weird bit for me to try to understand, that with the referendum of 2016, uniquely, everyone in the country is supposed to 'respect' and get behind the choice of the winning side on that day 7 years ago, failing to do so makes you an anti democratic waitrose wanker etc etc.
But nobody's ever once told me that i have to respect & support the idiotic tory that my neighbours here put in place here as my representative, or even any of the governments we've enjoyed during my lifetime none of which i voted for. Why is the referendum uniquely special in this way?

Disagreeing doesn't make you an undemocratic wanker, voting for the EU makes you an undemocratic wanker.

 

[Barbary]

How was the referendum a democratic vote?

It was held in the UK, people voted, it changed the situation, it was established as democratic, by the UK parliament.

 

[philosophical]

The referendum was a democratic vote. Parliament didn't have to agree, it was not binding. Parliament did agree. It is undemocratic when you can't fire a government - the EU

It is possible to ‘fire’ the governance of the EU. You are mistaken if you believe otherwise.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This has always been a weird bit for me to try to understand, that with the referendum of 2016, uniquely, everyone in the country is supposed to 'respect' and get behind the choice of the winning side on that day 7 years ago, failing to do so makes you an anti democratic waitrose wanker etc etc.
But nobody's ever once told me that i have to respect & support the idiotic tory that my neighbours here put in place as my representative, or even any of the governments we've enjoyed during my lifetime none of which i voted for. Why is the referendum uniquely special in this way?

God, don’t try and use logic here

 

[philosophical]

Remainers gave weakness to the negotiations. Calling for the GFA to be considered, and ending up with the worst outcome. The EU should not be in NI.

Remainers did not weaken negotiations in any way. If you say they did then maybe you can prove it with some evidence.

 

[Barbary]

It is possible to ‘fire’ the governance of the EU. You are mistaken if you believe otherwise.

Yes it is possible, we left.

 

[Pickman's model]

It was held in the UK, people voted, it changed the situation, it was established as democratic, by the UK parliament.

But the UK Parliament is a very undemocratic institution so having their blessing on a vote is the kiss of death to its legitimacy

 

[philosophical]

Yes it is possible, we left.

You have reversed your position in the last ten minutes or so.

 

[Barbary]

Remainers did not weaken negotiations in any way. If you say they did then maybe you can prove it with some evidence.

All remainers wanted was to spoil the prospects of leaving, by making any agreement look like a remain vote.

 

[Pickman's model]

You have reversed your position in the last ten minutes or so.

It'll change again in five or ten minutes again

 

[two sheds]

All remainers wanted was to spoil the prospects of leaving, by making any agreement look like a remain vote.

You're in favour of a hard Brexit under the tories?

 

[philosophical]

All remainers wanted was to spoil the prospects of leaving, by making any agreement look like a remain vote.

You are wrong.
I voted remain, what I wanted after the leave vote was a workable solution to the land border between the UK and the EU.
How is that a spoiler of any kind?

 

[Barbary]

But the UK Parliament is a very undemocratic institution so having their blessing on a vote is the kiss of death to its legitimacy

If you think parliament is undemocratic, you've got problems. But i can go along with some of that sentiment. The UK parliament was in effect, helping to create a situation that ultimately would lead to the disenfranchisement of the electorate.

 

[bimble]

All remainers wanted was to spoil the prospects of leaving, by making any agreement look like a remain vote.

The people from the Get Brexit Done party, the ones who did the agreement where we left the common market, you think they were secretly controlled by deep state remainers dont you and that's why things haven't gone as brilliant as they might have.

 

[ska invita]

The border, positioned in the sea, is a bad idea. It doesn't do anything for GFA. It favours the Republicans, who have gained a kind of unification goal, with the EU lording it over the whole of Ireland. It is no wonder the DUP are unhappy. The EU should be kicked out of Ireland.

you favoured a hard border between Ireland and N Ireland yeah?

 

[Barbary]

But the UK Parliament is a very undemocratic institution so having their blessing on a vote is the kiss of death to its legitimacy

If you think parliament is undemocratic, you've got problems. But I can go along with some of that sentiment. The UK parliament was in effect, helping to create a situation that ultimately would lead to the disenfranchisement of the electorate.

 

[MrSki]

How it is seen in Dusseldorf.

 

[Artaxerxes]

you favoured a hard border between Ireland and N Ireland yeah?

Which will somehow lead to republicans declaring war in the UK when Ireland unifies as a result.

 

[teqniq]

All remainers wanted was to spoil the prospects of leaving, by making any agreement look like a remain vote.

Ah. The 'You pissed on our chips argument'.

 

[Karl Masks]

Farage conceding at 10pm then gloating at 7am was a whiplash.

Then saying that if Brexit had lost by the same margin it would be "unfinished business"

 

[Pickman's model]

If you think parliament is undemocratic, you've got problems. But i can go along with some of that sentiment. The UK parliament was in effect, helping to create a situation that ultimately would lead to the disenfranchisement of the electorate.

Of course parliament is undemocratic, the upper house contains 92 people there because they are hereditary peers and hundreds of men and women who are elevated to serve for life without ever facing an electoral test while in the lower chamber politicians vote as told by their party, not their constituents. Oh and all laws have to be approved by an unelected monarch who gets to have a say on any laws that might affect their interests.

 

[Barbary]

you favoured a hard border between Ireland and N Ireland yeah?

It is the natural border. It would not have given the Republicans an advantage. But it would be in keeping with treating both Republicans and Unionists fairly, in accordance with the power sharing spirit of the GFA. And the EU is not part of the UK.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I voted remain because I thought Brexit was a stupid thing to do. I now think it was an utterly moronic thing to do. Bimble's right - you don't magically start agreeing with something just because your vote on it wasn't in the majority of those asked (3 million EU citizen residents and tax-payers weren't asked).

Brexit isn't failing because remainers aren't trying hard enough. Brexit is failing because it was a stupid idea executed in just about the worst manner possible.

 

[Pickman's model]

It is the natural border. It would not have given the Republicans an advantage. But it would be in keeping with treating both Republicans and Unionists fairly, in accordance with the power sharing spirit of the GFA. And the EU is not part of the UK.

There are few natural borders in Ireland and none between the 6 and 26 cos

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is the natural border. It would not have given the Republicans an advantage. But it would be in keeping with treating both Republicans and Unionists fairly, in accordance with the power sharing spirit of the GFA. And the EU is not part of the UK.

what?