bimble
floofy
Our current international trade secretary and chancellor also profess to believe this, tbf.
A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
On this OBR "4%" point you are entirely correct, however there is a degree of irony in seeing a Lexiteer outline the difference between assumption and fact. If I've understood the Lexit position correctly, it was based on the assumption that the right would not use the Lexit desired referendum outcome to accelerate their small-state consolidation and that a leftist government would be elected to use the nationalist freedom to turn the UK into a democratic socialist polity?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
How have we 'cut our close ties' economically exactly?
When have I said that there is no 'appreciable downturn in trade'
On your irony scale how ironic do you find it to see alleged 'radicals' pining for a return to the order that existed for the 40 years before the referendum and making this the issue that exercises them more than, for example, the crisis of capitalism, the cost of living crisis, war, environmental catastrophe?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
You can do better than this Brogdale. 3/10.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
ska invita
back on the other side
Agree with you.... Though this Hard Brexit is part of the cost of living crisis tbf, but rejoining is not a solution.......and immiserationist though it is this is at least degrowth, though implicated like this it literally kills people....more details at 11.30am
Last edited:
ska invita
back on the other side
What does consolidation mean again? You did explain once but it didn't sink in.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
incremental cuts to size/scope of state via privatisation etc.
I'm not wasting my time debating with you. It's utterly pointless. A case in point being the above ascertain that the issue "exercises them more than, for example, the crisis of capitalism, the cost of living crisis, war, environmental catastrophe." Where on earth do you get that from? It's a meaningless sentence. There's no sliding scale of importance for such issues. Brexit related problems are just one of a number of problems facing this country. Those that highlight these issues (radicals? wtf??) aren't focused on this exclusively, despite your perception that they do.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
You do know this is a messageboard? Debating stuff is kind of a key reason for its existence.
Anyway, cheerio..
Conveniently ignored the rest of the posting and the reason though, didn't you? Just a wind up merchant.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
We didn't vote on a relationship with the IMF, so what's the relevance there?
What alternative to the EU exists that was on the ticket? You Lamar everyone else for being middle class liberals yet over nothing towork with. Meanwhile we can see the harm brexit causes
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Obviously better things to do
ska invita
back on the other side
so what is being "consolidated" - private ownership of previously state assets?
gosub
~#
Principal driver appears, to me, reducing number of people on civil service pension
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
In the Streeck(ian) sense, he viewed the consolidation in terms of the process whereby the state is increasingly de-democratised making any challenge to the (supra) state's neoliberalism harder, thus consolidating the hegemony of financialised capital.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
A helpful consequence for the consolidators but not the principle driver, no. Their's is a more ambitious agenda.
gosub
~#
The cynic in me suspects its to be on the board or major a shareholder of the firms involved
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yeah, undoubtedly these sociopaths are driven by self-interest but that risks underplaying the ideology that underpins the policy trajectory that they drive/support.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Where do you get elected bureaucrats?
inews:
While Mr Hunt has not held back from blaming Russia for economic problems, experts said it was striking to see the Government ignore one major factor: Brexit.
“Studies have shown, compared to European countries, when you look at bounce back from pandemic, we have not bounced back so strongly,” said Hargreaves Lansdown senior investment and markets analyst Susannah Streeter.
“What was missing from statement was any talk about a reassessment of the UK’s trading relationship with the EU… If that red tape is taken away, it would really help boost the prospects for a faster recovery for the UK.”
Although Mr Hunt did not address Brexit, he would have no doubt seen the Office for Budget Responsibility’s assessment of Britain leaving the EU. The body said: “The latest evidence suggests that Brexit has had a significant adverse impact on UK trade, via reducing both overall trade volumes and the number of trading relationships between UK and EU firms.”
While Mr Hunt has not held back from blaming Russia for economic problems, experts said it was striking to see the Government ignore one major factor: Brexit.
“Studies have shown, compared to European countries, when you look at bounce back from pandemic, we have not bounced back so strongly,” said Hargreaves Lansdown senior investment and markets analyst Susannah Streeter.
“What was missing from statement was any talk about a reassessment of the UK’s trading relationship with the EU… If that red tape is taken away, it would really help boost the prospects for a faster recovery for the UK.”
Although Mr Hunt did not address Brexit, he would have no doubt seen the Office for Budget Responsibility’s assessment of Britain leaving the EU. The body said: “The latest evidence suggests that Brexit has had a significant adverse impact on UK trade, via reducing both overall trade volumes and the number of trading relationships between UK and EU firms.”
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
And yet a few posts above you had the opportunity to outline the assumptions that lay behind your decision to engage with the Tories’ EU referendum as a Lexiteer.
Presumably you didn’t assume it would turn out like this?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I didn't assume or presume anything. The position adopted was a) a recognition of the political opportunity to divest Britain of the dead weight of the neo-liberal EU and its gathering political federalism (plus the increasing control and punishment beatings of countries who refused to impose savage austerity like Greece by the troika of the IMF, ECB and unelected bureaucrats) with the key organising principle a race to the bottom b) the political opportunity to further widen and deepen the debate about what type of economy and society we should organise and fight for with the opportunity (still extant) to rebuild a national economy based on a shift towards economic democracy c) a chance to boot the established order in the bollocks, including all of the parties represented in the HoC who suported remain and d) a question of class solidarity - leaving aside the foul politics of the leadership of Official Leave and Official Remain - the leave vote where I live and work was overwhelmingly working class and the remain support most strident amongst useless middle class liberals.
I have explained all of this many time before on this groundhog day of a thread...
ska invita
back on the other side
All good apart from D, a very localist notion of class solidarity. Majority working class near me voted remain and it was wealthy boomers who voted leave, so now what.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Fair play and I appreciate the concise resume of what what motivated you to engage.
From the minority perspective of someone who choose not to engage with the tory referendum I'd say that your position does, inevitably, include a number of assumptions as no-one could know what outcomes might result from the binary choice.
I suppose they include the assumptions that leaving the supra state would offer:
- greater opportunities to challenge neoliberalism and austerity
- more opportunity to shift debate for economic reform
- represent a "kicking" for the "established order"
- an expression of class solidarity
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but as i've said above the ripples from the brexit vote haven't yet settled and potentially the biggest losers from it are the conservative party, whose rabid adherence to the most fuckwitted sort of brexit imaginable may lead to their ejection and quite possibly electoral annihilation at the next general election. i suppose 'a chance to fuck shit up' would come under Smokeandsteam's (a)
ska invita
back on the other side
Even if assumptions, you never get to meaningfully vote for them so can't fault a punt on that logic
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Possibly; but any such electoral annihilation would bring about another set of neoliberal, consolidator state actors. Nothing changes.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
True, the ultimate assumption being that voting can change anything.
Similar threads
