A thank you to Brexiteers.

[The39thStep]

Very concerned about the consequences for this thread if Twitter goes down

 

[Serge Forward]

All good apart from D, a very localist notion of class solidarity. Majority working class near me voted remain and it was wealthy boomers who voted leave, so now what.

That's because the 'D' isn't so much class politics as a form of local populism.

 

[Pickman's model]

Possibly; but any such electoral annihilation would bring about another set of neoliberal, consolidator state actors. Nothing changes.

let the dust settle and see if all your assumptions for your conclusion hold true.

 

[Pickman's model]

Very concerned about the consequences for this thread if Twitter goes down

and not just this thread but all of urban. poor gosub will go apoplectic

 

[ska invita]

my presupmtion/assumption was that it would be

a - a firesale of deregulation
b - an extension of nationialism
c - introduction of an antiworking class points based migration system
d -my solidarity was with antiracists, antixenophobes and those who might lose their existing rights as a result

i think my assumptions were based on reality rather than wishful thinking

 

[Pickman's model]

and so it begins again

 

[AmateurAgitator]

All good apart from D, a very localist notion of class solidarity. Majority working class near me voted remain and it was wealthy boomers who voted leave, so now what.

Thats a fair point. I think it was about 60% of the brexit vote that came from the middle class and up.

 

[ska invita]

and so it begins again

TUNE!!!

 

[brogdale]

let the dust settle and see if all your assumptions for your conclusion hold true.

But you're assuming that the (Brexit) dust hasn't yet settled!

I assume we're actually at peak brexit now; the only trajectory left will be gradual reintegration into aspects of the single market/trading area.

 

[Pickman's model]

But you're assuming that the (Brexit) dust hasn't yet settled!

I assume we're actually at peak brexit now; the only trajectory left will be gradual reintegration into aspects of the single market/trading area.

it'd be interesting if the tories try to claim the mantle of european integrationists in future

 

[bimble]

Whoever does it first or most convincingly will get the votes of the under 50s, so sooner or later it’ll be politically expedient to do so, to abandon the current ploy of appeasing the brexiteers only.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whoever does it first or most convincingly will get the votes of the under 50s, so sooner or later it’ll be politically expedient to do so, to abandon the current ploy of appeasing the brexiteers only.

It's not worked for the lib dems

 

[bimble]

It's not worked for the lib dems

Too soon, and nobody likes them anyway.

 

[Karl Masks]

I didn't assume or presume anything. The position adopted was a) a recognition of the political opportunity to divest Britain of the dead weight of the neo-liberal EU and its gathering political federalism (plus the increasing control and punishment beatings of countries who refused to impose savage austerity like Greece by the troika of the IMF, ECB and unelected bureaucrats) with the key organising principle a race to the bottom b) the political opportunity to further widen and deepen the debate about what type of economy and society we should organise and fight for with the opportunity (still extant) to rebuild a national economy based on a shift towards economic democracy c) a chance to boot the established order in the bollocks, including all of the parties represented in the HoC who suported remain and d) a question of class solidarity - leaving aside the foul politics of the leadership of Official Leave and Official Remain - the leave vote where I live and work was overwhelmingly working class and the remain support most strident amongst useless middle class liberals.

I have explained all of this many time before on this groundhog day of a thread...

You haven't explained fuck all. I'm still waiting to hear the benefits of leaving. Go....

 

[brogdale]

You haven't explained fuck all. I'm still waiting to hear the benefits of leaving. Go....

That's not a fair representation of Smokeandsteam 's response, tbf.
They've explained very clearly what motivated them to engage with the tory EU referendum and vote to leave. You, or I, might not be convinced of their assumptions, but they have very clearly explained themselves.

 

[philosophical]

I am waiting to hear where bureaucrats are elected.
They seem to me to be those appointed by those elected.

 

[Karl Masks]

That's not a fair representation of Smokeandsteam 's response, tbf.
They've explained very clearly what motivated them to engage with the tory EU referendum and vote to leave. You, or I, might not be convinced of their assumptions, but they have very clearly explained themselves.

But that wasn't my question. I have repeeatedly asked, in the wake of the considerable damage caused, what the benefits of leaving actually are. We can all be critical of the EU, but we cannot ignore it

 

[brogdale]

But that wasn't my question. I have repeeatedly asked, in the wake of the considerable damage caused, what the benefits of leaving actually are. We can all be critical of the EU, but we cannot ignore it

Then quote your own convo; I asked them about the assumptions that lay behind their vote and they responded.

 

[Karl Masks]

Then quote your own convo; I asked them about the assumptions that lay behind their vote and they responded.

It's a simple question: what are the benefits? surely there is an answer brexiteers can point to

 

[brogdale]

It's a simple question: what are the benefits? surely there is an answer brexiteers can point to

Not something I can offer, I'm afraid.
As set out by the lexiteer community they all appear potential/hypothetical benefits to me.

 

[philosophical]

Booze cruises.
Isn't that supposed to be the big benefit?

 

[A380]

Lexit benefits any moment now, yes siree, any. moment. now.

 

[Maggot]

It's a simple question: what are the benefits? surely there is an answer brexiteers can point to

I started a thread about this once - and it got binned.

Good luck.

 

[inva]

No. It’s an assumption and forecast made by the OBR. You can tell this because it’s in the section of the report marked as such. I can forecast that the OBR - produced by those working at the heart of establishment remain - will be wrong because it’s based on a series of assumptions frozen at a particular moment in time and given the war, covid, Brexit and the cost of living crisis inevitably can only be a guess.

As a technocratic body designed to entrench and depoliticise austerity its easy to see the OBR's shared appeal with the EU

 

[The39thStep]

Meanwhile in another world not to far away from this thread

 

[Yossarian]

Did something happen in March 2020?

 

[Yossarian]

These pollsters found a much lower percentage of people giving a shit about EU membership before the referendum was called.

 

[Raheem]

Did something happen in March 2020?

February.

But, yeah, I believe they've also stopped taking bets about when the Queen will die.

 

[brogdale]

Meanwhile in another world not to far away from this thread

View attachment 351967

Interesting metric of how people were played by the campaigns.

 

[ska invita]

Interesting metric of how people were played by the campaigns.

are you calling people stupid/manipulated/gullible???