A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Immigrants are always needed for the government to point the finger of blame at and stir up racism. Brown immigrants work better for that.

Fuck me, another one.

 

[iveivan]

You are welcome

 

[contadino]

Wow, that's a shift from leavers being the racists, well played.

Ha! That's a hell of a leap, but you've already demonstrated that you're a fantacist.

 

[brogdale]

The BrexUrbz will love this...

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Is high inflation a Brexit bonus too? Because that comes along right behind higher wages as sure as night follows day.

The 1970s just called and would like their anti-working class slogan back.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[bimble]

lots of oddities in this poll here, like that only 39% of people who voted leave say they think it was good for the nation's interests, and that 4 out of 10 people think Johnson didn't lie about brexit, but this is the best bit:
'the Savanta poll found the UK still split down the middle on Brexit, with 46 per cent saying the 2016 decision to leave the EU was right and 46 per cent wrong. Some 10 per cent of former Leave voters who said they now think it was the wrong decision were balanced by 13 per cent of Remain voters who now think it was right to leave.'

 

[gosub]

lots of oddities in this poll here, like that only 39% of people who voted leave say they think it was good for the nation's interests, and that 4 out of 10 think Johnson didn't lie about brexit, but this is the best bit:
'the Savanta poll found the UK still split down the middle on Brexit, with 46 per cent saying the 2016 decision to leave the EU was right and 46 per cent wrong. Some 10 per cent of former Leave voters who said they now think it was the wrong decision were balanced by 13 per cent of Remain voters who now think it was right to leave.'

Whats odd? It didn't go as hoped. (as acknowledged by leavers) and some remainers it turns out to thiink democracy has some value.

What I do find a bit odd is the thinking that there is any real desire to keep picking at what is still an open wound, but it is a free country if some people want to use their perogative its down to them. Just would nice if they had some clue of what it entails. Certainly won't happen under this parliament. If those that do still want to be banging on about rejoining what will be 8 years after the plebicite they lost, then the ducks in a row will have to include joining the EUro and Schengen.


meanwhile the world keeps turning and all this 'l'esprit de l'escalier seems less relevent.

 

[brogdale]

Whats odd? It didn't go as hoped. (as acknowledged by leavers) and some remainers it turns out to thiink democracy has some value.

What I do find a bit odd is the thinking that there is any real desire to keep picking at what is still an open wound, but it is a free country if some people want to use their perogative its down to them. Just would nice if they had some clue of what it entails. Certainly won't happen under this parliament. If those that do still want to be banging on about rejoining what will be 8 years after the plebicite they lost, then the ducks in a row will have to include joining the EUro and Schengen.


meanwhile the world keeps turning and all this 'l'esprit de l'escalier seems less relevent.

The reason we're in here discussing this is precisely because some interest groups expressed the "desire to keep picking at what is still an open wound" from 1973(75) onwards, and even before that in some instances.

The changed trading relationships effected in 1973 and 2016 obviously had/have ongoing consequences so it's no surprise that some people continue to "bang on" about it.

 

[Pickman's model]

it is a free country

You've really not been following current events over the past six years

 

[gosub]

The reason we're in here discussing this is precisely because some interest groups expressed the "desire to keep picking at what is still an open wound" from 1973(75) onwards, and even before that in some instances.

The changed trading relationships effected in 1973 and 2016 obviously had/have ongoing consequences so it's no surprise that some people continue to "bang on" about it.

1973/75 shouldn't be classed as open wound (that it has been is part of why we are where we are) UK agreed by plebicite to join and stay in a common market. The EU is far more than that. The goal posts moved whilst debate over it was closed down for 40 years.

 

[brogdale]

1973/75 shouldn't be classed as open wound (that it has been is part of why we are where we are) UK agreed by plebicite to join and stay in a common market. The EU is far more than that. The goal posts moved whilst debate over it was closed down for 40 years.

Bit late to re-write that political history, I'm afraid.
Right-wing/nationalist/empire-fanaticists were organising, campaigning and lobbying against UK membership of the 'common market' as early as 1961, some 12 years before UK accession.

e2a: "...debate over it was closed down for 40 years."

 

[philosophical]

Whatever has happened has not been ‘democratic’ because the voting slip did not single out Northern Ireland to be treated differently.
The ‘democracy’ of the vote has not happened, so leave voters who might bang on about honouring democracy can’t use the referendum aftermath as an example.
The democratic deficit has been created by forces for leave, not remain.

 

[gosub]

Bit late to re-write that political history, I'm afraid.
Right-wing/nationalist/empire-fanaticists were organising, campaigning and lobbying against UK membership of the 'common market' as early as 1961, some 12 years before UK accession.

e2a: "...debate over it was closed down for 40 years."

Thats right, there was no consoldiation no further treaties no ever closer Union for 40 years it all stayed exactly as it was so there was no need for public engagement and anybody that thought there was was just some zenophobe with a thing about bananas..

And people old enough to politically involve themselves in 1961 were born in 1940 or before, all still hanging there and asserting there command of UK politics in 2016.

 

[brogdale]

Thats right, there was no consoldiation no further treaties no ever closer Union for 40 years it all stayed exactly as it was so there was no need for public engagement and anybody that thought there was was just some zenophobe with a thing about bananas..

And people old enough to politically involve themselves in 1961 were born in 1940 or before, all still hanging there and asserting there command of UK politics in 2016.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make, but to suggest that there was no debate about the UK's membership of the EEC/EU before 2015 is just plain wrong.

 

[The39thStep]

Bit late to re-write that political history, I'm afraid.
Right-wing/nationalist/empire-fanaticists were organising, campaigning and lobbying against UK membership of the 'common market' as early as 1961, some 12 years before UK accession.

e2a: "...debate over it was closed down for 40 years."

As did the left untill the late 80s after the defeat of the miners .

 

[bimble]

Whats odd? It didn't go as hoped. (as acknowledged by leavers) and some remainers it turns out to thiink democracy has some value.

What I do find a bit odd is the thinking that there is any real desire to keep picking at what is still an open wound, but it is a free country if some people want to use their perogative its down to them. Just would nice if they had some clue of what it entails. Certainly won't happen under this parliament. If those that do still want to be banging on about rejoining what will be 8 years after the plebicite they lost, then the ducks in a row will have to include joining the EUro and Schengen.


meanwhile the world keeps turning and all this 'l'esprit de l'escalier seems less relevent.

I was surprised by that bit too, where it says only 32% of respondents 'say the issue should never be reopened'. I'd have guessed it would be at least double that, everyone being sick of it.

What do you mean when you say it didn't go as hoped?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I don’t know much, but I do know

Spoiler: Brexit has made…

 

[Ax^]

Whatever has happened has not been ‘democratic’ because the voting slip did not single out Northern Ireland to be treated differently.
The ‘democracy’ of the vote has not happened, so leave voters who might bang on about honouring democracy can’t use the referendum aftermath as an example.
The democratic deficit has been created by forces for leave, not remain.

the sister moved to the north in 2012 so was back and forward for quite a bit weddings , holidays and Christings

the campaign in north ireland at least the remain side made it clear that hard border check was the main reason for opposition to the vote
example below even after the result

you know if the hard unionist vote thought brexit was a good idea because of custom boarders on the land boarder of north ireland to the republic
and a return to the situations during the troubles

Well they were lied to by Boris and his Party, never trust a tory
cannie really say my heart bleeds for them

 

[philosophical]

Yes.
The leave apologists continue to either ignore the border implications, or treat it as a joke.
For me the land border is a fulcrum of the wider downsides of leave, but it is singular in one way and possible to use to demonstrate the folly of the whole malarkey. For example issues about trade, and free movement and collaboration.
The dismissal, and jokes about the border also resonate with age old anti Irish feeling from the mainland, where to my mind the English in particular regard the Irish as upstart colonials to be attacked, exploited, and betrayed.
I see all who voted leave to be part of that anti Irish constituency.

 

[Ax^]

if only it was that easy as that

it was a lack of care towards the subject that really shows thru

they did not plan for the effect in north ireland even when giving the DUP 1 billion pound to support the withdrawl agreement

 

[Badgers]

 

[donkyboy]

Give it about 10 years. We will be crying back into the EU. No doubting it . Decade will breeze by. Hopefully the condition for re-entry will be no more referendums on leaving for at least 300 years and any early exit will result in a 300 trillion euro fine.

 

[High Voltage]

Give it about 10 years. We will be crying back into the EU. No doubting it . Decade will breeze by. Hopefully the condition for re-entry will be no more referendums on leaving for at least 300 years and any early exit will result in a 300 trillion euro fine.

I would like to think "something" like that, but I doubt it'll be in my lifetime (I'm 60) and I'd be amazed if the Kingdom was allowed back under such reasonable conditions . . . I fear they would be truly punitive

 

[Serge Forward]

They wouldn't be punitive, they'd be standard and without any "British exceptionalism" clauses.

By the way, I can't remember which Tory minister or negotiator it was, who when in the early days of Brexit was asked by some Eurocrat, "what do you propose to do about the land border?" replied with "What land border?" Anyone remember?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

.......

 

[bimble]

yeah i love the murderous EU.

ooh can i get that on a t shirt.

 

[TopCat]

Fuck off you cunt.
I have spent the past five years demonstrating to leave voting cunts that you can’t square the circle where the GFA says remain and the referendum says leave. I would be relaxed enough with a United Ireland, it is nationalism I object to, unlike the nationalist foreigner hating leave voters.
I don’t give a toss whether you pretend you secretly work for a United Ireland, and if you voted leave that was your purpose. Backsliding lies. Disingenuous equivocation where you and your sneering ilk on Urban (leavers and remainers) patronisingly pose and write personals directed at me because I point out, endlessly, that your high falutin pose does not disguise your low down cuntishness in pretending it is possible to leave and remain at the same time.
You and your entourage can piss off and mutually wank each other into a stupor. Your single issue is to put down another to disguise the vacuousness of your own position.
Fuck off and continue with your fantasy of having Nigel Farage suck you off, you are a snide piece of shit who wants to give it out, but probably runs to moderators if you feel slighted in return.
Cunt.

Pure loonspud now. A parody.

 

[philosophical]

Pure loonspud now. A parody.

Really?
Pure retaliation against an attack on me, likening me to Ian Paisley.
Solved the Irish border problem yet? You voted for it.
Attacking my perspective by continuous personal digs is a leave voters method for deflecting from the serious situation they have called on.
‘Look over there at Philosophical’, don’t look at the damage I’ve done, is the message.
You voted leave.
Now explain how you intend to make that work on the land border.

 

[existentialist]

You voted leave.
Now explain how you intend to make that work on the land border.

TBF, I don't think that's actually his job.

 

[Spymaster]

Fuck off you cunt.
I have spent the past five years demonstrating to leave voting cunts that you can’t square the circle where the GFA says remain and the referendum says leave. I would be relaxed enough with a United Ireland, it is nationalism I object to, unlike the nationalist foreigner hating leave voters.
I don’t give a toss whether you pretend you secretly work for a United Ireland, and if you voted leave that was your purpose. Backsliding lies. Disingenuous equivocation where you and your sneering ilk on Urban (leavers and remainers) patronisingly pose and write personals directed at me because I point out, endlessly, that your high falutin pose does not disguise your low down cuntishness in pretending it is possible to leave and remain at the same time.
You and your entourage can piss off and mutually wank each other into a stupor. Your single issue is to put down another to disguise the vacuousness of your own position.
Fuck off and continue with your fantasy of having Nigel Farage suck you off, you are a snide piece of shit who wants to give it out, but probably runs to moderators if you feel slighted in return.
Cunt.

If I were a leave voter, I'd be totally reveling in how cross it's made dickheads like you!