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A thank you to Brexiteers.

TopCat said:
They can’t at the moment though as furlough ends within four weeks and will likely put half a million uk workers out of work/income. They know they have to let profits get squeezed and inflation rise as the alternatives are too much for them.
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I don’t understand this. Do you mean that within 4 weeks they (business owners) expect to be able to fill their vacancies with the freshly unemployed people ?
 
TopCat said:
They can’t at the moment though as furlough ends within four weeks and will likely put half a million uk workers out of work/income. They know they have to let profits get squeezed and inflation rise as the alternatives are too much for them.
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No, I didn't mean let EU workers back...that's obviously not politically feasible (yet).
I meant that "in the national interest" the tories will just accelerate the hostile environment for those that don't work, and attempt to get more out of those that do.
 
bimble said:
I don’t understand this. Do you mean that within 4 weeks they (business owners) expect to be able to fill their vacancies with the freshly unemployed people ?
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Sounds like they've been Mcinzied you know the our knowledge base gives the skills to manage any business.. (personally don't think it works lle that - anymore than I think you can confidently reverse an artic with a couple of hours practice)
 
gosub said:
Sounds like they've been Mcinzied you know the our knowledge base gives the skills to manage any business.. (personally don't think it works lle that - anymore than I think you can confidently reverse an artic with a couple of hours practice)
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I don’t know. I would have thought furloughed Ryan Air staff could move into abattoirs quiet easily ;)
 
TopCat said:
The government strongly hope they will and won’t slacken the rules to allow more imported labour until they give it a go. A million on the dole at a stroke would cause a stroke.
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Problem is this: Two-thirds of the growth in employment from 2010 onwards is accounted for by self-employment, zero-hours contracts and agency work. The number of people living in poverty who are in a working family is 43%. Take the average wage of vacant posts in food distribution - £11.80 per hour. The problem isn’t a lack of workers, it’s a lack of decent work.
 
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Deepening austerity and unrestricted marketisation of the crumbs we have fought for and held or, what was that other option offered?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Problem is this: Two-thirds of the growth in employment from 2010 onwards is accounted for by self-employment, zero-hours contracts and agency work. The number of people living in poverty who are in a working family is 43%. Take the average wage of vacant posts in food distribution - £11.80 per hour. The problem isn’t a lack of workers, it’s a lack of decent work.
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Yes, the problem is that the neoliberal state is merely a vehicle for transferring wealth from the poor to the rich and subsidising corporate poverty pay with the taxes on labour suits capital just fine.
 
brogdale said:
Yes, the problem is that the neoliberal state is merely a vehicle for transferring wealth from the poor to the rich and subsidising corporate poverty pay with the taxes on labour suits capital just fine.
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20% increase in the wealth of billionaires during the pandemic.
 
The39thStep said:
Investing heavily in upskilling the workforce doesn't require making the UK an unwelcoming place for EU nationals .
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It has. My Spanish partner feels this. So have several of her EU friends who are sticking it out here.

Plus I have several East European friends who decided to go back to their own countries. As this one changed.

Post Brexit UK is less welcoming place for EU nationals.

Whole run up to referendum made big issue about East European immigration. That somewhow British industry wasnt upskilling workforce due to access to EU workforce. Therefore leaving would force it to upskill. Give better pay and conditions.

Its Imo naive to now say that upskilling doesn't require UK to be unwelcoming.

Upskilling and investing in UK workforce wasn't stopped by EU.

BTW how do you think as Brexit supporter this country post Brexit could be made more welcoming to EU nationals? I'm sure my EU friends would like to now. As this isn't how they feel at this time.

They for example didnt get right to vote in the referendum. Despite living here for five, ten years.
 
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Gramsci said:
It has. My Spanish partner feels this. So have several of her EU friends who are sticking it out here.
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Fair enough, but the UK workforce hasn't actually been particularly "upskilled" since the Brexit vote, and there's not really any sign that it will be. Fucking off EU workers probably isn't a trade for something positive, just a thing.
 
Maggot said:
I just love Brexit supporters asking Remainers to solve problems caused by Brexit.
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Actually, I was responding to Supine's statement ( who even though I disagree with at least contributes to a discussion rather than just moan) about there being a more complex problem than just wage rises.
 
The39thStep said:
Actually, I was responding to Supine's statement ( who even though I disagree with at least contributes to a discussion rather than just moan) about there being a more complex problem than just wage rises.
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But, isn't it always the way with majoritarian electoral outcomes; the minority bemoan the outcome imposed by the 'majority'? That's a kind of right to those who perceive the tyranny of the majority...much of these P&P threads feed on that really.
Do you think they're wrong to moan...on a moaning thread?
 
Maggot said:
I just love Brexit supporters asking Remainers to solve problems caused by Brexit.
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To clarify three things: I’m not suggesting Remainers solve ‘the problems caused by Brexit’. Talking of which the ‘problems caused by Brexit’ are either illusory, short term, pre-existing structural or political economy matters exacerbated by it or a combination of all of them. Remainer accounts consistently overlook this paradigm and lack seriousness and credibility as a result.

Finally, if the sum of remain thinking is ‘everything is shit, and it’s all the fault of Brexit’ then it’s going nowhere. At some point someone on your side is going to need to produce a cogent analysis of where things are and what they think should be done about it; starting from the pre-existing order and properly taking into account all of the material factors. A grown up and serious account. No sign of it yet though.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Finally, if the sum of remain thinking is ‘everything is shit, and it’s all the fault of Brexit’ then it’s going nowhere. At some point someone on your side is going to need to produce a cogent analysis of where things are and what they think should be done about it; starting from the pre-existing order and properly taking into account all of the material factors. A grown up and serious account. No sign of it yet though.
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Isn't the shouting into the void pretty much explained by the fact, from the remain perspective, we are "going nowhere"? This was a binary outcome which given lifespans etc. is effectively permanent. For those that define themselves politically as being on the losing side of this outcome I really don't see how they can be expected to produce "a cogent analysis"? What is there for them to analyse?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Problem is this: Two-thirds of the growth in employment from 2010 onwards is accounted for by self-employment, zero-hours contracts and agency work. The number of people living in poverty who are in a working family is 43%. Take the average wage of vacant posts in food distribution - £11.80 per hour. The problem isn’t a lack of workers, it’s a lack of decent work.
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If that number goes down, because 'staff shortages' means the shit jobs are replaced by better paying ones, that would mean that brexit's led to a real material benefit and i'd be first in line to eat my big remoaner hat.
 
brogdale said:
But, isn't it always the way with majoritarian electoral outcomes; the minority bemoan the outcome imposed by the 'majority'? That's a kind of right to those who perceive the tyranny of the majority...much of these P&P threads feed on that really.
Do you think they're wrong to moan...on a moaning thread?
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If the right to moan was ever under threat I would defend it. However, I wouldn't go as far as to advocate a position based on 'The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to moan about it.'
 
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