The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Still think platinumsage point stands
A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
andysays
Love and solidarity
So that's 30,000 tests that didn't happen last year because of Covid, ie nothing to do with Brexit.
What about the previous four years they've had to prepare?
What about all the years of depending on cheaper Romanian and Bulgarian drivers, forced to work and live in the shitty conditions Bahnhof Strasse described above?
(And haven't we been through all this just the other day, either on this thread or another one?)
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes and yes and, which were built on the Mondragon and Cleveland models. It’s not a new idea at all. In essence it’s a fairly limited social democratic offer given the extent to which the pandemic requires a ‘big state’ approach.
But it’s one that, until Corbyn, wasn’t on the political radar and which under EU procurement rules were necessarily limited in the extent to which social value could be fully embedded.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
That's why I said they should have started this in June 2016 when it became clear we were leaving the EU.
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
Started what? What sort of preparation should they have done?
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Trained more drivers and improved pay and conditions. If they'd done that, they would have: 1) reduced the number of European drivers leaving following Brexit, and 2) retained and recruited more UK-based drivers in the last five years, further reducing the impacts of departing European drivers.
andysays
Love and solidarity
This is an interesting video from a couple of years ago which has just popped up on my youtube suggestions. It talks about some of the issues facing truck drivers and explains from a driver's POV why the haulage industry was already in crisis back then, with a reported shortfall of 45,000 drivers.
TL;DR the wages are too low and the conditions are rubbish
TL;DR the wages are too low and the conditions are rubbish
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Just a clue . In the unlikely scenario that you were in charge of an industry that has heavily relied on other countries training staff and you were not sure that this convenient supply of labour would always be there , would you a) do nothing b) try and make a case that this supply of labour be made a special case c) invest in recruitment training and staff retention in the country that you are based in d) post in urban
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
TBF they're not going to improve pay and conditions when there's people from other countries prepared to do it for less. And as for training more drivers, you can't force people to become drivers!
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The sheer level of fuckery and what kind of magic brexit do we want coupled with some creative truths from Johnson et all means that few businesses were prepared on a large scale when Brexit day finally appeared
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
But they knew as of 24 June 2016 that their current supply of drivers from other countries would be drastically reduced, yet still they took no action. Sure you can't force people to become drivers, but it's a well-established fact in the business world that if you increase pay and improve conditions, you will have a bigger pool of willing people to recruit from.
bimble
floofy
is that true ? I mean that they were employed by romanian / bulgarian companies these truck drivers who have gone away?
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You seem unsure what you mean.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Yep. One of the joys of free movement is that you can live and work anywhere in the EU, so Bahnhof Corp can employ bimble in London, then send her to Spain to work for a year or so, all the while employed, paid etc. back in London as before. Shipping in cheap labour and pushing down costs for business is kind of the raison d'etre of the EU and why they were so keen to get Romania and Bulgaria on board and why they are eying up Serbia and the other Balkan states.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is. I think there's confusion going on between UK-based drivers who are EU citizens on the one hand, and EU-based drivers doing deliveries to the UK on the other.
The on the one hand drivers are the ones who have left.
It is true that EU rules allow people to be employed in one country and be actually based in another, but I don't believe this is or was a particular feature of the UK haulage industry.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Employ Bimble ?
bimble
floofy
Maybe its true of some people, who came over here because they were sent over by their employers but it definitely doesn't work as a general explanation for what EU workers have been doing in the UK. Why would you bother coming to the UK from Bulgaria in order to work for Bulgarian wages it makes no sense at all, people came here to make UK wages, save up then go home and buy a house.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Because there was no work in Romania & Bulgaria.
Romania Trucking Ltd came to the UK and snaffled up contracts for trucking around the UK, sent their trucks and drivers over to fulfil them, as they were paying much lower wages than UK Trucking Ltd they could undercut the UK outfit every time. That left just specialist truckers/trucking firms like the one Frau Bahn worked for, trucks with cranes on and that kind of thing, general haulage went to the eastern outfits.
bimble
floofy
Romania Trucking Co did not have to pay UK wages not even UK minimum wage?
andysays
Love and solidarity
I don't know what proportion of eg Bulgarian drivers working in the UK were employed by Bulgarian companies and how many by UK companies.
I would imagine though that most of the ones working across Europe, doing very long deliveries which ended in the UK would be employed by companies in their country of origin, and that those employed by companies here in the UK would work mostly within the UK, rather than across Europe.
ETA although Bahnhof Strasse seems to being saying otherwise, and I'm happy to defer to his insider knowledge
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
bimble
floofy
Romanian official minimum wage is £2.36 an hour i just learned. If those truckers were delivering my burrata to Waitrose for that then the whole industry will be fucked now but i just don't think they were. They'd just leave and get a better paid job, shortage of drivers has been going on a while hasn't it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I suspect haulage drivers in the EU will be employed by companies in the countries from where their cargo originates, so drivers carrying oranges far more likely to be employed in Spain than bulgaria
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
.
bimble
floofy
Hello. We are talking about truck drivers, they pick up things like food and take them to places like shops, hth. As i said, this shortage is the one that is of most pressing concern to me.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There is no burrata shortage. Now, being as burrata neither made in the UK nor in Romania where are you suggesting these drivers are employed? E2A just seen Bahnhof Strasse's post
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
But Brexit! If Brexit hadn't happened the Romanian slaves would still be delivering your Avocado's!
It's a fallacy of conflation. There isn't a shortage of HGV drivers because Brexit. There's a shortage of HGV drivers because Covid, and because the EU created a situation where Romanian drivers could operate in the UK on half the wages of a UK driver. That's why there's a shortage of UK HGV drivers, not because Brexit.
andysays
Love and solidarity
On one level that would certainly make sense, but I also suspect that if the Bulgarian drivers who will transport the oranges from Spain to eg the UK, can be employed in Bulgaria and therefore be paid lower wages than if they were employed in either Spain or the UK, that's the way it will be done in practice.
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