andysays
Love and solidarity
So why is there now this apparent lack of HGV drivers?
Is this an inevitable consequence of Brexit, or are the reasons perhaps a little more complicated than that?
A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
Is this an inevitable consequence of Brexit, or are the reasons perhaps a little more complicated than that?
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Slight problem being Starmer is the leader of HM loyal opposition.Talking of which, here is another one.
Pledging to take the opportunity to review public procurement rules - one of the major benefits of Brexit - to ensure that ‘social value’: jobs, tax revenues, skills and even the demands and requirement of an industrial strategy are fully taken into account when spending public money is important. This could even open up the question of state aid for critically important sectors.
Keir Starmer takes on Tories with ‘buy British’ economic plan
Buoyant Labour sets out post-Brexit vision promising that more public contracts will go to UK companieswww.theguardian.com
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
He still reminds me of the Camp manager in Hi De Hi
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
One of the tasks of which is to set out a post covid/post Brexit economic plan. Do you support a review of procurement rules and an emphasis on social value when making spending decisions (something EU procurement rules sought to undermine)?
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
You tell me.
Have they all retired at the same time or re-trained as M15 operatives?
I don't know but await you complicated reasoning.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
ya fucking right unless it more crony tory matesTalking of which, here is another one.
Pledging to take the opportunity to review public procurement rules - one of the major benefits of Brexit - to ensure that ‘social value’: jobs, tax revenues, skills and even the demands and requirement of an industrial strategy are fully taken into account when spending public money is important. This could even open up the question of state aid for critically important sectors.
Keir Starmer takes on Tories with ‘buy British’ economic plan
Buoyant Labour sets out post-Brexit vision promising that more public contracts will go to UK companies
look up 10 ten tory donators
bimble
floofy
Of course not inevitable, there were a million possible brexits its just we are only getting this one. I really think that brexit or not brexit is a much less important thing than who it is that gets to run the country.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I don't have any faith in Starmer to deliver any of that, but it is at least interesting that it can now be proposed, whereas pre-Brexit it would have been effectively ruled out long before it got to the stage of a policy announcement.Talking of which, here is another one.
Pledging to take the opportunity to review public procurement rules - one of the major benefits of Brexit - to ensure that ‘social value’: jobs, tax revenues, skills and even the demands and requirement of an industrial strategy are fully taken into account when spending public money is important. This could even open up the question of state aid for critically important sectors.
Keir Starmer takes on Tories with ‘buy British’ economic plan
Buoyant Labour sets out post-Brexit vision promising that more public contracts will go to UK companies
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
I would love to see an open procurement system which embraces social values. Can't see it happening any time soon though.
ska invita
back on the other side
was posted elsewhere (cant find now) that its supposedly down to a massive increase in moving goods about brought on by online retail, happening not just in the UK
this link suggests the same for the US
??
andysays
Love and solidarity
This just sums up the utter lack of thinking behind your position.You tell me.
Have they all retired at the same time or re-trained as M15 operatives?
I don't know but await you complicated reasoning.
All your responses are simply knee-jerk anti-Leaver nonsense and you appear to be literally unable to deal with any of the issues.
It's possible to have a reasonable discussion with people with different opinions, but you have demonstrated yourself to be a complete waste of time.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Precisely. I expect loads of comments from people saying can’t/won’t happen. Fair enough, that’s an entirely legitimate analysis.
But surely everyone can agree that the fact that a space is now opened up, where this type of debate can be had and these ideas seriously argued for is a significant one and directly intervene with the economic orthodoxy of the last 40 years?
ska invita
back on the other side
BBC says:
The Road Haulage Association believes there is currently a shortfall of about 60,000 drivers.
It estimates that some 30,000 HGV driving tests did not take place last year because of the Covid pandemic.
Kate Shoesmith, deputy chief executive of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation, told the BBC last month that before the pandemic, many lorry drivers in the UK had been nationals of EU countries, particularly Romania and Bulgaria.
They stayed in the UK after the Brexit referendum, but started leaving when coronavirus struck, she said.
"They have either sourced work in their home countries or they feel it's not right to return to the UK, either because of Brexit or the pandemic," Ms Shoesmith added.
The Road Haulage Association believes there is currently a shortfall of about 60,000 drivers.
It estimates that some 30,000 HGV driving tests did not take place last year because of the Covid pandemic.
Kate Shoesmith, deputy chief executive of the Recruitment and Employment Confederation, told the BBC last month that before the pandemic, many lorry drivers in the UK had been nationals of EU countries, particularly Romania and Bulgaria.
They stayed in the UK after the Brexit referendum, but started leaving when coronavirus struck, she said.
"They have either sourced work in their home countries or they feel it's not right to return to the UK, either because of Brexit or the pandemic," Ms Shoesmith added.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I don't know if that's the whole story, but that at least has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
To suggest the British political class, and especially Starmer, are incapable of seizing the opportunity opened up is a legitimate point of view. But Biden is demonstrating that - without the fetters of the EU - it’s entirely possible to imagine how an infrastructure plan ground in social value could work - and for the left - how it can be argued and fought for, as this wheel on the Biden plan shows:
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Sorry but you keep banging on about the shortage of HGV drivers not being completely due to Brexit & I ask you to explain why and then you reply with this bollocks.
I asked you in a reasonable way to explain the complicated reasons behind the shortage of HGV drivers. Would still like your answer.
My responses are how I find the UK post Brexit.
I hope everything turns out to be wonderful because I fucking live here & want to live in a country where things are as good as possible for everyone. Just not seeing it that is all.
Odd that the first example listed in the article is production of passports, which the UK government contracted in 2018 to a Dutch co rather than De La Rue here.Talking of which, here is another one.
Pledging to take the opportunity to review public procurement rules - one of the major benefits of Brexit - to ensure that ‘social value’: jobs, tax revenues, skills and even the demands and requirement of an industrial strategy are fully taken into account when spending public money is important. This could even open up the question of state aid for critically important sectors.
Keir Starmer takes on Tories with ‘buy British’ economic plan
Buoyant Labour sets out post-Brexit vision promising that more public contracts will go to UK companies
You might recall that at the time this was a controversial decision precisely because so many other EU countries do keep their own passport printing domestic. Germany, France, Italy, and others. And entirely within EU rules to do so.
Can happily support Labour’s proposal here, and IIRC correctly they said the same 3 years ago. But not take that one as a benefit of Brexit, when it was a UK government choice not conclusion before.
But other examples, sure. if they can thread the needle of state aid and fair competition rules in all our post-Brexit trade agreements.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Biden is in power though & Starmer isn't.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Even if starmer was in power everything he says points to the conclusion that he is desperate to be seen as a safe pair of hands, so even if he was in power with a majority of eighty he would do nothing to rock the boat
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Isn't it what Preston council has been doing for a while now, and pretty similar to what Corbyn was proposing?
I've also just seen a story that the EU is objecting to the UK's windpower programme on the basis that we're discriminating in favour of UK manufacturers, so going against trade agreements. So there may still be a problem with it post Brexit - particularly if we're signing agreements anywhere that allow companies to sue us for loss of trade.
ska invita
back on the other side
yeah just posted about that here
Keir Starmer's time is up
It doesn't really matter who replaces Starmer at this point. The point right now is to punish Starmer and his ideological supporters. With him gone there would be an election and the membership would vote on who is the best of the candidates who steps up. The winner of that contest, if they have...
www.urban75.net
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
It's remourner now. We're in mourning.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
In mourning againIt's remourner now. We're in mourning.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
What we saw pre-Covid/Brexit was the laybys on trunk roads up and down the country with Romanian and Bulgarian truckers living out of their trucks, not just sleeping in the cab for a few days of a trip, but months at a time, cooking on stoves in their trailers, pissing and shitting in the bushes, not a great way for anyone to live, but it is work that they can't get back at home. They were paid by Romanian/Bulgarian companies at Romanian/Bulgarian rates which of course massively undercuts any UK driver's wages, which may go quite some way to explain why there is such a shortage of UK drivers now. One other thing that we saw with the Romanian/Bulgarian drivers is the number plates on the tractors and trailers never matched, the police never bothered as they knew it would be a massive ball-ache with interpreters and so forth, makes you wonder what other parts of motoring law was being ignored too.
ska invita
back on the other side
you are very watchful!
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Boo-hoo for the haulage industry. They've had since June 2016 to train and recruit UK-based drivers. Perhaps they could: 1) start doing that now; 2) spend some of the money saved in not doing that previously on increasing wages to attract back some of the UK-based drivers we are told quit in their droves in recent years.
ska invita
back on the other side
"It estimates that some 30,000 HGV driving tests did not take place last year because of the Covid pandemic."
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