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8 dead after crowd surge at US festival

Flavour said:
No one is saying that Travis Scott is the only one to blame -- obviously all the management are culpable. But he is not absolved at all by sharing that blame with the shitshow management -- he's a grade A cunt and it's not a coincidence that something like this happens at one of his shows and not, for example, an Adele show
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Right. Because obvs none of the people in the crowd knew of his history of this.
 
This is an interesting article on crowd dynamics, including some advice about what to do: What the physics of crowds can tell us about the tragic deaths at Astroworld
In the meantime, there are several precautions one can take to stay safe in dangerously crowded conditions, according to Mehdi Moussaid, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Human Development. He had just completed his doctoral thesis on the movement of crowds when the 2010 Love Parade disaster occurred, and he has been researching crowd dynamics ever since. In a 2019 article for The Conversation—which is updated regularly, a testament to the unfortunate prevalence of such crowd surge events—Moussaid offered several survival tips for people who find themselves in potentially dangerous crowded situations.
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Ideally, one should be able to identify when the crowd is becoming too dense: if you're accidentally bumping into a couple of people around you, moving to a less congested area might be a good idea. If you can't move your hands freely, you are now in a dangerous crowd condition.
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Moussaid's tips in this scenario include trying to remain upright to avoid being trampled; keeping your arms at chest level, folded in front of you to protect your rib cage; avoiding screaming to save your breath, since the majority of deaths in crowds are due to asphyxiation; trying to locate the epicenter of the crush and look for viable escape routes (including scaling a fence or climbing onto a ledge); and trying not to panic. Also, people often try to resist the pressure of the crowd and push back. Moussaid advises going with the flow—unless you're next to a wall, fence, or other barrier, which should be avoided in densely crowded situations.
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beesonthewhatnow said:


My mate was their FOH engineer (still is for Noel). His story of this day is… terrifying, tbh.

The force of the crowd surge at the start moved the entire front barrier back several feet and broke it at one point. If you’ve ever had to pick that stuff up you’ll know just how high that force must have been.
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'kinell, that looks terrifying!
 
editor said:
If I was on stage and I saw something bad happening in the crowd, I'd do something about it. There's really no excuse given what that twat saw happening in front of his own eyes.
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I mean, he might not have been aware of the crush in the crowd and people suffocating/dying, but he certainly saw the ambulance and didn't ask the crowd to facilitate the medics accessing/treating people.
 
plenty of well deserved criticism being aimed at Travis Scott, not nearly enough being aimed at Live Nation.
it's on them, again, in my opinion. Everyone knows Travis Scott is a cunt, its what he does, Live Nation didn't put in suitable crowd control measures for that event.
21 years since 9 people died at Roskilde during the Pearl Jam slot, crowd safety management has come along way since then and because of that tragedy, among others. shame Live Nation didn't bother doing any of it.
 
pesh said:
plenty of well deserved criticism being aimed at Travis Scott, not nearly enough being aimed at Live Nation.
it's on them, again, in my opinion. Everyone knows Travis Scott is a cunt, its what he does, Live Nation didn't put in suitable crowd control measures for that event.
21 years since 9 people died at Roskilde during the Pearl Jam slot, crowd safety management has come along way since then and because of that tragedy, among others. shame Live Nation didn't bother doing any of it.
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Its a bit like the shooting on the set of Rust. There were so many people who didn't do their job right, and/or adhere to basic gun safety rules, that its difficult to pin who is responsible. There were a series of people who messed up and the error compounded. They'll be sorting the Rust case out in court for years.

Here, I partially blame the first responders and the Fire Marshall's office or the people who owned the venue. I'm sure a Fire Marshall's officer had the power to pull the plug on the concert the moment things became unsafe and they did not. I've shut down a concert the middle of it. Admittedly, it was a completely different and much smaller crowd. We had hard and fast rules for when a concert was to be stopped. I'm surprised there were nothing in place for how/when you pull the plug on an event in this case, or they choose not to follow it for some reason. Its possible they thought they'd have a riot if they did. They'll be sorting this case out in court for years too.
 
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Yuwipi Woman said:
Its a bit like the shooting on the set of Rust. There were so many people who didn't do their job right, and/or adhere to basic gun safety rules, that its difficult to pin who is responsible. There were a series of people who messed up and the error compounded. They'll be sorting the Rust case out in court for years.

Here, I partially blame the first responders and the Fire Marshall's office or the people who owned the venue. I'm sure a Fire Marshall's officer had the power to pull the plug on the concert the moment things became unsafe and they did not. I've shut down a concert the middle of it. Admittedly, it was a completely different and much smaller crowd. We had hard and fast rules for when a concert was to be stopped. I'm surprised there were nothing in place for how/when you pull the plug on an event in this case, or they choose not to follow it for some reason. Its possible they thought they'd have a riot if they did. They'll be sorting this case out in court for years too.
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The event plan said that only the festival director and the executive producer had the authority to stop the show: Here's what the operations plan for the Astroworld Festival included and didn't include

Nothing in there about crowd control at all.

It's not certain that document that CNN have had leaked to them is the final event plan or not. I'm very surprised that the stage manager for that stage and whatever the chief fire officer is don't have the authority but apparently that's the case here.
 
BigTom said:
The event plan said that only the festival director and the executive producer had the authority to stop the show: Here's what the operations plan for the Astroworld Festival included and didn't include

Nothing in there about crowd control at all.

It's not certain that document that CNN have had leaked to them is the final event plan or not. I'm very surprised that the stage manager for that stage and whatever the chief fire officer is don't have the authority but apparently that's the case here.
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That’s insane if true.
 
Yossarian said:
Scott reportedly went to a party after the concert but left when he heard about the deaths, which would seem to back up claims that he wasn't made aware of the scale of the tragedy.

www.nbcnews.com

Travis Scott went to a party after Astroworld but was unaware of the tragedy, source says

"When someone told Travis at Dave & Buster’s about the tragedy, he immediately left the party," the sources said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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It seems fair to assume that if those that would have been generally responsible for stopping the gig did not do so, then it is highly likely they also didn’t tell him what was actually going on at the time.
 
I went to Monsters Of Rock at Donnington in 1998. It was Gnus and Roses first UK gig.

When they came on I was halfway back in a crowd of 100k. The crowd surged forced me forwards about 50m and I lost all my friends I was with. Turned out two people were killed in the crush.

The gig continued (pre mobile phone days etc).

When Iron Maiden came on, after about five songs there was another swell. They stopped the music and Bruce Dickinson stood there and said (and I remember it so clearly)

"OK everyone. We won't play another note until you all take two paces back.".And then waited until the crowd did.

By then it was on the news but we had no idea. My parents were frantic but had no way of knowing. I eventually found my mates back at the tent. We left the next day and when I got home I found one very relieved mum and one very relieved dad.
 
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AverageJoe said:
I went to Monsters Of Rock at Donnington in 1998. It was Gnus and Roses first UK gig.

When they came in I was halfway back in a crowd of 100k. The crowd surged forced me forwards about 50m and I lost all my friends I was with. Turned out two people were killed in the crush.

The gig continued (pre mobile phone days etc).

When Iron Maiden came on, after about five songs there was another swell. They stopped the music and Bruce Dickinson stood there and said (and I remember it so clearly)

"OK everyone. We won't play another note u til you all take two paces back.".And then waited until it did.

By then it was on the news but we had no idea. My parents were frantic but had no way of knowing. I eventually found my mates back at the tent. We left the next day and when I got home I found one very relieved mum and one very relieved dad.
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1988, iirc.
 
I’m wondering why personal responsibility is being leveraged here. If he was the gig organiser than fair enough. But I’m fairly sure that on all the previous occasions this has happened that the legal mechanisms and media hasn’t gone directly for the throat of the artist.
 
Remembering back on Monsters of Rock all they need to do was bring Paul Stanley back on.

When Kiss played in the afternoon they played three tracks and then he spoke. His voice was so hight pitched that everyone in the crowd took five steps back and went "Whaaaa???" in disbelieve.

It was a great gig though. I was 17. And really only there to see Helloween and Megadeth. In fact I teared up when Dave Mustaine came on stage.

Ahh. The joys of youth.
 
DaveCinzano said:
If you mean Altamont, it was a stabbing death by a Hells Angel of someone with a pistol? And there was rather a lot of commentary on the wisdom or otherwise of hiring the Angels.
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Ah right, yeah I mixed up the gun thing.
Pink Floyd seating collapses. 90 injured. Was Gilmour in the dock?
 
most of the staff at these events are part-timers they don't even have the minimal training the SIA demands.
Certain artists see crowd control as the enemy rent a cops not realising that crowds are dangerous
 
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