75-year-old widow to be flogged

[littlebabyjesus]

Nobody is 'born' muslim .

While this is, of course, true, to become an apostate in Saudi Arabia is not quite the same as rejecting the Church of England.

 

[Melinda]

A fine country. Let's sell them some fighter jets, shall we, so that they can defend their excellent system?

Are they threatening the old dear with a jet? Cos that would certainly learn me. *nods*

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

The point is, of course, that's it's clearly wrong to label any group as the same and even more so to label them knuckle draggers.

I really think jon has a problem with his prejudices.

Why is it that we consider ourselves so enlightened but are still able to get away with bollocks like that?
The same thing about niggers, poofs or pakis would have got him a slapping.
Why not this?

Or is he right and it's fine?

well clearly it's wrong to sugest that all people are the same however it is aceptable to point out that huge chunks of many major world religions are compleatly indefensible

for example the sections that can in anyway be intrepreted as an ok for people to flog grannies

ok yes there are ways of interpreting holy books that mean granny is nice and happy and unflogged however i think that anyone who stands behind a book that has some choice quotes like

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

i think it's fair game to call them messed up

(i picked the bibe in this case as there are many ice fluffy vicars and there are also god hates fags types one of these types is compleatly disgusting the other is just deeply suspect for beliving in roughly the same thing)

 

[DotCommunist]

While this is, of course, true, to become an apostate in Saudi Arabia is not quite the same as rejecting the Church of England.

well yes of course, but you can pay lip service while not actually believing, as I'm sure many did when christianity was at similar levels of zealotry.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's also worth remembering that Mohammad was a warlord. He was very far from a man of peace.

 

[derf]

<sigh> ...
As has been said, race is not a matter of choice.
Religion, on the other hand is backward, superstitious fuckwittery, which ignores evidence, rejects reason and is the source of delusion, discord and suffering.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/news/religious-hatred-law

To be attacked or targeted because of your race or religion is wholly unacceptable. It can have a devastating effect on victims who find themselves on the receiving end of bigotry and hatred,' he said.

The government's overarching goal, he added, is to build a civilised society where we can all achieve our potential, free from prejudice.

Bigot!

 

[Dr Jon]

So all the people who are born Muslims are fuck witted cunts and I suppose that goes double for converts.

What a prejudiced cunt you are.

I would fuck off and join the BNP you useless bastard.

Don't be dense. People aren't "born" anything. There aren't Muslim genes or Hindu genes FFS.

 

[Melinda]

It's also worth remembering that Mohammad was a warlord. He was very far from a man of peace.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/news/religious-hatred-law



Bigot!

That's a wrong-headed law, imo. Do you believe something to be just simply because it is the law of the land? If so, you should be cheering the beating of this woman.

 

[derf]

well clearly it's wrong to sugest that all people are the same however it is aceptable to point out that huge chunks of many major world religions are compleatly indefensible

I agree. I also agree that slapping this granny is well out of order.
You could rightly say that some Muslims are whatever you like and you may well be right but you can't say it about all.

That's where it becomes wrong.

To give you an example. Today i've been to a mate's house. His wife is about to give birth and she was in bed. I took my baby daughter into the roon to see her. No problem at all.
There was another newish mother in there breast feeding her kid quite openly and in my full view.
No one gets upset and no one gets flogged.

I think that example shows that not all Muslims are the same so can anyone tell me why targeted bigotry against all Muslims is OK on any level?

I'm a bit lost on the subject.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

actually if you looked at the post again it was an attack on religion not all muslims

 

[Chairman Meow]

I'm a bit lost on the subject.

Yes. Yes, you are.

 

[derf]

That's a wrong-headed law, imo. Do you believe something to be just simply because it is the law of the land? If so, you should be cheering the beating of this woman.

So I'll make a post and PM Ed to make sure he sees it.

Niggers have rhythm
Poofs like to shag little boys
Chinks all eat cats
Pakis stink
lesbos need to be cured. A good shagging from a bloke with a big cock should do the job.

Now if I really believed any of that prejudiced, bigoted bullshit would that be worth a ban or even a prosecution for hate crimes?

but it's OK if it's only a Muzzie

Is this the 1960s?

 

[derf]

actually if you looked at the post again it was an attack on religion not all muslims

So alienate the christians, jews and so on while we are at it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So I'll make a post and PM Ed to make sure he sees it.

Niggers have rhythm
Poofs like to shag little boys
Chinks all eat cats
Pakis stink
lesbos need to be cured. A good shagging from a bloke with a big cock should do the job.

Now if I really believed any of that prejudiced, bigoted bullshit would that be worth a ban or even a prosecution for hate crimes?

but it's OK if it's only a Muzzie

Is this the 1960s?

The reason I think it is wrong-headed is because there is a world of difference between attacking a person and attacking a belief. Any law that seeks to dictate which beliefs we are allowed to question (or indeed ridicule) and which we are not is wrong.

Basically, if it is ok to say that a person is wrong (or even an idiot) if they believe the world is flat, it should be equally ok to say the same thing about someone who believes that The Bible/Koran/whatever is the 'word of God'.

 

[derf]

Don't be dense. People aren't "born" anything. There aren't Muslim genes or Hindu genes FFS.

I'll mention that in the mosque later.
I've just been showing a mate this thread. He's a born Muslim and is wondering why some people on this forum hate him so much when you have never met him.

I am still wondering the same.

I'm also amazed you can't see your own bigotry.

So much for enlightened.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

if there is good reason to do so

plus that is just the abrahamic religions there are plenty of other disgusting beliefs out there

just dig your way thruogh any holy book i bet there will be stuff that is compleatly unaceptable in it that you would be imprisoned in most civalised countries if you followed it to the letter

this is what religion is and while it's perfectly capable to follow a religion and do nothing but good how on earth can you not critisize it when it's full of shit

people who follow a religion can be good but the religion they follow can be ridiculous and disgusting

 

[derf]

The reason I think it is wrong-headed is because there is a world of difference between attacking a person and attacking a belief. Any law that seeks to dictate which beliefs we are allowed to question (or indeed ridicule) and which we are not is wrong.

Basically, if it is ok to say that a person is wrong (or even an idiot) if they believe the world is flat, it should be equally ok to say the same thing about someone who believes that The Bible/Koran/whatever is the 'word of God'.

Fair point. I can live with freedom of speech but does knuckle dragging seem like a fair statement and was it fair comment when used about 'niggers' in the 60s and 70s?
I'll go with someone saying that there is no God or even that he believes religion is a waste of space but to go on like that is just pure hate and bigotry.

 

[Dr Jon]

So alienate the christians, jews and so on while we are at it.

and any other brain donors you can find..

It really is scary that in this day and age, these superstitions have any credibility at all. It is really worrying that supposedly educated leaders of nations publicly admit to their sky-pixie fantasies.

No wonder the world's in such a fucking mess.


Watch thou for the fuckwit!


Anyway, let's stop derailing this thread and get back to the topic.

 

[likesfish]

derf your friend beliefs is odd but relativly harmless.

but if he is on the side of saudi fuckwits who'd rather girls burn to death than go out unveiled and flogg grannys and kill women who dishonour the family.

then he is a knuckle dragging fuckwit

 

[camouflage]

I'm sure he can reply for himself, but i could not see any singling out of one religion by editor there, just any religion that caused such inhumane behaviour.

Is islam on your mind?!

I knew this 'debate' would occur, in this case specificaly about islam as it's Saudi Arabia we're discussing here.

So I thought I'd get my sarci comment in early for all those that will doubtless turn up and apologize for the religion for yet again shitting so copiously on the carpet (right there in front of everyone too).

In this instance Islam is the target (yes, target) but if you think I'd go soft on any other pile of super-naturalist bollocks you don't know me at all.

derf's comparison of slagging of religion to racism would only be worth a serious response if he'd reffered to anti-semetism or holy-wars and the pogroms and persecutions that accompany them. Comparing the man-made ego-trip that is religion to a pathological hatred for a product of nature by pulling out the word "nigger" is frankly insulting.

That it is in the nature of human beings to have ego-trips, that would be an interesting discussion, and so would it be interesting to examine why people consider anti-semetism not acceptable whereas those same people consider slagging of a religion to be acceptable, or how to avoid hating groups of people because you hate religion, tthese are debates I can respect. That's just me though. The rest of you guysare free to apologize and make excuses for whatever you want, pulling out old woolly favourites like relativism this and context that.

 

[derf]

derf's comparison of slagging of religion to racism would only be worth a serious response if he'd reffered to anti-semetism or holy-wars and the pogroms and persecutions that accompany them. Comparing the man-made ego-trip that is religion to a pathological hatred for a product of nature by pulling out the word "nigger" is frankly insulting.

The idea of using words like nigger and poof was to suggest that bigoted tripe against the whole of the Islamic world may just be as offensive to Muslims.

 

[camouflage]

The idea of using words like nigger and poof was to suggest that bigoted tripe against the whole of the Islamic world may just be as offensive to Muslims.

What, black muslims or just the brown ones that are straight?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What, black muslims or just the brown ones that are straight?

There are no gay Muslims.

 

[camouflage]

The idea of using words like nigger and poof was to suggest that bigoted tripe against the whole of the Islamic world may just be as offensive to Muslims.

Indeed, muslims recognize that bigoted tripe against homosexuals is the same as bigoted tripe against muslims. Even though as LBJ says, there are no gay muslims, and of course no muslim could ever understand what it is to be called a nigger. But together, these three distinct groups stand in relativist solidarity against the horrid prejudice of liberal humanist types that oppose the right of Faith to rule the world, and cry FREEEEEDOM!!!!!!

makes sense.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You all seem to be having an islamophobic fest...

If you believe that, you haven't read the thread properly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'll mention that in the mosque later.
I've just been showing a mate this thread. He's a born Muslim and is wondering why some people on this forum hate him so much when you have never met him.

I am still wondering the same.

I'm also amazed you can't see your own bigotry.

So much for enlightened.

You're missing the point. A person may be born into a culturally Jewish, culturally Islamic or culturally Christian (etc, etc) family, that doesn't make you, until you accept the doctrine of your faith, a religious "Jew", "Muslim" or "Christian". You're not "born" into the religion, but into the culture that contains the religion.

 

[smmudge]

This isn't a religious issue, it's a political issue. Injustices occur in secular societies too.

 

[derf]

You're missing the point. A person may be born into a culturally Jewish, culturally Islamic or culturally Christian (etc, etc) family, that doesn't make you, until you accept the doctrine of your faith, a religious "Jew", "Muslim" or "Christian". You're not "born" into the religion, but into the culture that contains the religion.

No my friend. You are missing the point. People here are born Muslims.
Come here and find out why I'm right.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

No my friend. You are missing the point. People here are born Muslims.
Come here and find out why I'm right.

*sigh*

welcome to the world where children aren't allowed to make an informed choice