7/7 Home Office 'narrative' leaked: Iraq led to July 7

[laptop]

whatever happened to those other four men?

The four that were arrested following the failed 21 July attack?

In prison - Belmarsh probably. Trial set for September, but these things have a habit of getting delayed...

Link lists 13 others charged with assisting them - reading between the lines, they don't get tried until after the trial of the four.

 

[tangentlama]

Male bovine's excrements!

There were plenty of US military operations before 9/11.

The most important 'exercise' of that year was the OMAN Exercise, which had been planned for a long time. The newspapers seem to give the wrong date about when this exercise actually began. I believe UK Troops were there since the Summer of 2001.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4256959,00.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/27/narmy27.xml

And the most important US Ministerial tour was Rumsfeld's 'WMD Threat is real' whistlestop tour of Europe and Ukraine & Russia throughout the summer of 2001.
http://www.dod.mil/news/Jun2001/n06062001_200106061.html

But we mustn't get sidetracked away from that we're discussing 7th July 2005, not 11th Sept 2001.

 

[Poseidon]

<editor: thread-derailing fruitloopery removed>

 

[Badger Kitten]

Government shills may pose as "bombing victims", for example, winding up remarkably unscathed, posting all over the blogosphere within ten hours of the attacks, promoting the ludicrous "Muslim extremist" government-backed conspiracy theory to the Press, and even admitting that they work full-time in the field of advertising and promotion

Referee!


Anti-semitic bollocks alert, and I am fed up of being called a lying M15 shill by foaming armchair tinfoilhatmerchants.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Actually, why not go and have a laugh?

 

[editor]

Referee!


Anti-semitic bollocks alert, and I am fed up of being called a lying M15 shill by foaming armchair tinfoilhatmerchants.

I've removed the drivel.

His website is truly unpleasant too, complete with a claim that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were all a 'hoax.'

 

[Badger Kitten]

Thank you.

 

[editor]

Actually, why not go and have a laugh?

Bless:

Rachel from north London could indeed exist. She could wittingly or unwittingly allow spooks to use her name to cause dissent among, waste time of and gain intelligence about 9/11 and 7/7 sceptics. Spooks are having her pose as someone who wants an inquiry to make out that she is not a stooge and fool the sceptics.

Nutter alarm!

It's interesting how they make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims about you on that forum but never question the identities or the motives of any of their fellow conspiraloons.

 

[Prole]

A videotape of Mohammed Siddique Khan released after the attacks also featured footage of Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri. The Home Office believes the tape was edited after the suicide attacks and dismisses it as evidence of al-Qaeda's involvement in the attack.

The explanation for this I am looking forward to reading.

 

[editor]

BK: after reading a few pages of that thread and seeing all the defamatory attacks, wild claims and unsubstantiated accusations, I'm amazed you hung about to be honest!

 

[janeb]

@ BK

That website and discussion forum is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. I got as far as page 8 and gave up - well done you for keeping in there as long as you did but in doing so you showed more resolution than I think I could ever have done.

 

[editor]

The explanation for this I am looking forward to reading.

Wrong way around that sentence appears to be.

 

[Prole]

@ editor

Wrong way around that sentence appears to be.

Sorry forgot that form is more important than content, a bit like the explanation for 7th July methinks.

 

[editor]

Sorry forgot that form is more important than content, a bit like the explanation for 7th July methinks.

Humour and worthwhile credible content you appear to have not.

 

[free spirit]

in addition to the list of questions needing answered raised by BK and detective boy, I'd like to know what impact the met having virtually all their tsg units and commanders up in scotland policing the G8 at the time of the bombing had.

I've never believed that this was a coincidence, not in a full on CT kinda way, just in a logical if I was a terrorist planning the UK's biggest terrorist operation in London and it was all over the news for months in advance that virtually every officer that could be spared was going to be in scotland for a week then I'd definately be taking advantage of this fact... as the 7/7 guys blatantly did.

I'd also be interested to know whether the met had left themselves overcommitted as a result of the g8 committments, and didn't have the experienced officers in place to deal with a multi site incident of this magnitude. If I understand the police right, the TSG units and their commanders would usually have been the units sent to deal with these kind of incidents. From my conversations with met officers in scotland that day I know that they felt they should have been in london dealing with this, not in scotland on a wild goose chase.

Point being that it was a governmental decision to host the G8 in the remotest venue possible, thereby guaranteeing the need to tie up most of the met's tsg units 500 miles away in the scottish countryside and leaving london vulnerable. IMO the government left the population of london vulnerable to attack because they wanted to protect the G8 leaders from the merest possibility that they might see people protesting against their policies.

<sorry in yoda speak could not I write>

 

[laptop]

The TSG being in Scotland might have been a consideration. But the number of police on the ground makes practically no difference to the odds on stopping a suicide bombing. Not until you approach the situation where everyone has their personal FIT officer following them around - at which point you have to start worrying about the reliability of the FIT...

The G8 being in Scotland is more likely to have been a consideration. If I were planning any kind of action whatsoever against, er, the policies of several of the group of eight industrialised states, then their meeting would be an obvious choice of date.

It looks as though we'll never know. Not only are the bombers dead, not only does it appear that there was no-one else they discussed their plans with, but it seems likely that their thinking was as unconnected as that of the conspiracy theorists...

 

[Badger Kitten]

The Observer has been leaking the narrative, which will be out in a few weeks anyway, according to Mr. Clarke

 

[jæd]

Maybe they've finally caught up with the idea that there is no hierarchical "terror organisation". Al Q is a brand, not a corporation.

AFAIK this is the current perception of AQ in the intelligence community... The actual "active" part of it is very, very small... I think the problem is the meedja who paint AQ as the terror organisation with high-tech gadgets Bond style because it sells. Handy for politicos to buy into...

 

[detective-boy]

in addition to the list of questions needing answered raised by BK and detective boy, I'd like to know what impact the met having virtually all their tsg units and commanders up in scotland policing the G8 at the time of the bombing had.

The TSG run a stand-by system which has different levels (it used to have three, don't know what they currently do). Basically some are on duty and on patrol with an immediate response time. The number varies dependant on predicted activity / threat levels. Some are on duty but not on patrol (training, surveillance, etc.) with a few hours response time. Others are off-duty or on other duties with a response time of 16-plus hours.

G8 would have meant that those in the second and third tiers were not available to back-up the initial response in anything like quick time (though I believe some were despatched back down the M1 pretty damn sharpish). Whilst the immediate response tier would be "usual", I would not expect it to be enough to deal with a four site incident of this sort.

In short, therefore, I would think that the absence of large parts of the TSG
probably DID affect the immediate response and unubtedly affected the speed with which the required additional resources could be made available. That said, the effect was probably pushed down the chain to local policing pretty quickly, with officers pulled from other duties on divisions across the MPS and sent to assist. If this had been a public disorder situation this would have meant a poor response as they would not have the level of public order training / equipment as the TSG but for the sorts of duties required here it would make no difference.

(ETA: All of the above relates to the REACTIVE response. As to whether their absence helped the bombers get through - I would say a definitive "No", their presence would not have made any noticeable difference to the levels of visible policing and there is no suggestion that there were any specific preventative operations on which they would have been deployed. As for whether the bombers decided that their absence would make a difference - who can say?)

 

[Jazzz]

Well I had a look at the Observer yesterday. Some of it was interesting.

Mention of 'Al-Qaeda' as having anything to do with it appears to have been dropped!

The video of Khan is dismissed (for the very reasons you could find me dismissing it when it came out on these boards).

 

[laptop]

(ETA: All of the above relates to the REACTIVE response.)

And I was only thinking of the implication that their presence in London might have prevented or deterred the bombers. (And as for deterrence - agreed again, who can tell how irrational they were?)

I do hope that TSG in full lemon-sucker kit are not part of the response plan for any future outrage. Last thing I'd want to see as I emerged soot-covered from wherever... or one of the last, anyway. London pulls together, Dixon of Dock Green dispensing directions next to the WI tea stall, would be more the thing...

 

[editor]

The video of Khan is dismissed (for the very reasons you could find me dismissing it when it came out on these boards).

<stifles guffaw>

 

[Azrael23]

Well its been a long read but I`m here.....and have I got news for you.

How cutting edge and radical.....Iraq might have caused the bombings....there might be a chance we were wrong to go to Iraq.....Oooohhhh its a subversive idea alright!

God help us all.

I`ll be posting an information buffet later on. Black tie plz....

 

[editor]

How cutting edge and radical.....Iraq might have caused the bombings....there might be a chance we were wrong to go to Iraq.....Oooohhhh its a subversive idea alright!

God help us all.

I`ll be posting an information buffet later on. Black tie plz....

What the fuck are you on about?

Barely a soul on these boards supported the UK going into Iraq and I'd estimate that a large percentage also felt that the invasion played a significant part in the motives behind the 7/7 bombers.

Quite why you feel the need to repeat all that with a load of random gobbledegook added is anyone's guess.

 

[Azrael23]

What the fuck are you on about?

Barely a soul on these boards supported the UK going into Iraq and I'd estimate that a large percentage also felt that the invasion played a significant part in the motives behind the 7/7 bombers.

Quite why you feel the need to repeat all that with a load of random gobbledegook added is anyone's guess.

I was commenting on the way the media portrays such a view as the "most radical view accepted"...It was not a commentary on any board members you paranoid prize turnip.
It was a commentary on the way the media is used to create artificial barriers to real information, churchill said,

"The truth is so valuable that it must always be protected by a bodyguard of lies.."

Thats what the fuck i`m on about!

 

[editor]

I was commenting on the way the media portrays such a view as the "most radical view accepted"...It was not a commentary on any board members you paranoid prize turnip.

Me? Paranoid?!

 

[Azrael23]

Me? Paranoid?!

Arguing amongst eachother though its blatently obvious they`re both in the fire.. Say what you see, if you see it....SAY IT!!!



I read that the original meaning of paranoia was being in possession of all the facts, perhaps we are in good company

Sorry forgot that form is more important than content, a bit like the explaination for 7th July methinks.

Thats a fair comment imho

 

[laptop]

I read that the original meaning of paranoia was being in possession of all the facts

And you believed it, because it made you feel... special.

In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) means simply madness (para = outside; nous = mind).

Kraepelin developed a definition from this root involving delusional beliefs. Notably, in his definition, the belief does not have to be persecutory to be classified as paranoid, so any number of delusional beliefs can be classified as paranoia. For example, a person who has the sole delusional belief that he is an important religious figure would be classified by Kraepelin as having 'pure paranoia'

Wiki

 

[Jazzz]

The video of Khan is dismissed (for the very reasons you could find me dismissing it when it came out on these boards).

<stifles guffaw>

Aside from the glitch on the second word, notice the stark cut on the word 'continuously'. However, on that cut that audio is smooth. How can the video cut while the audio does not? It seems like a crude cut & shut job.

Just give it up mate. You're a fucking joke.

He's on the fucking video so your laughable earlier conspiraloonery about him being an innocent 'stooge' has been shown to be the pile of stinking shit it always is.

Any further fact-free bonkers speculation and evidence-untroubled wild fruitloop nonsense from you will be removed on sight.

the thread in question


"A videotape of Mohammed Siddique Khan released after the attacks also featured footage of Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri. The Home Office believes the tape was edited after the suicide attacks and dismisses it as evidence of al-Qaeda's involvement in the attack."

Observer article

 

[tangentlama]

who edited the tape in order to add Al-Q??