2004 F1 Championship

[the B]

Sato was very very likely to collide with Barrichello doing a move like that, he made it "stick" in that Rubens tried to move as far to the left as possible...

On the pit rules under safety cars - I think the way it would work is that the pit lane entry would be a red light - so if you have a scheduled stop, you basically park your car outside the pit lane until the light goes green (when the cars form up behind the SC)

 

[kained&able]

that would mean that your at the back though! unless your allowed to feed back in at your position ebfore the saftey car or something.

thats not fair.

and yeah satos move was silly but i honestly thought he had got away with it at first.


dave

 

[the B]

You feed in at the back of the safety car pack...in terms of road distance (and even time) to the front, it's not a severe penalty...I'm sure it can't be too bad if all the teams agreed to it anyway...

 

[the B]

"I made a good start, but the race was nearly over at the first corner - if I hadn't opened the door, Sato would have taken me out. I was third behind him and Michael when, two corners later, he made a mistake, so I took the inside line through turn four, but he closed the door. His right front wheel hit my front left and I nearly lost the car. In the confusion, I pressed the pit-lane speed limiter button and that cost me a number of positions."

Another driver indicates something about Sato...

"Even though I was starting from eighth, I had a good start, but the accident at the first corner obviously compromised my race. When I made it to the first corner, Rubens Barrichello, who was in front of me, braked quite early and both Ralf and I locked the tyres. Then Ralf went for the outside and I stayed behind Rubens but, when I was going around the corner, Panis dived up the inside, hitting my front tyre which threw me straight into Ralf. A hairpin is always going to cause problems in a racing start."

I don't recall Panis hitting his front tyre...Montoya's car seemed to just go straight (as you might expect when the tyres lock up) and then into his team mate...

Seems like Panis wasn't that close during the incident anyway...

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

The numerous replays seemed to just indicate that Montoya locked straight into Ralf with no assistance from Panis at all. It is possible though

 

[red rose]

It didnt look to me like panis had anything to do with it, not did I notice ralf locking his brakes.

I think in that quote montoya has managed to blame 3 other people

 

[g force]

Well that was an okay-ish GP, but I still think the track should be scrapped.

I defended JPM after Monaco but that accident was all of his own making and he should have the decency to hold his hands up on this one - he tried to outbrake people and it didn't work.

Sato provied once again why experience is so important because that move was highly reckless and cost him a guaranteed podium (if the engine hadn't blown).

Great races by JB (again - proving he can scrap when he needs to - although the Minardi's did him no favours when he tried to lap them) Fisi too - I hope he can get out of Sauber to one of the decent seats and Trulli - I hope he can keep his seat becuase this year he's been much better than Alonso.

 

[the B]

MP4-19B (revised specification McLaren) tested at Silverstone today, first test and it was a tenth of a second slower than the R24 (Renault) - comparison is between Raikonnen and Alonso.

Not really the best comparison since Silverstone was somewhat damp at times and little running was done.

The MP4-19B is expected to be ready to race as early as the Silverstone GP funnily enough...

Sadly for McLaren, it's the same Mercedes engine in the back which has proven to be prone to blowing up...the MP4-19B seems to have a similar shape of engine cover as the R24 incidentally...

I don't think there is anything wrong the Nurburgring but it's not an important GP in my opinion. I can certainly see it being scrapped as soon as Schumacher retires.

Not sure JB had a good race, he was outdone by Sato - not something to be proud of and had a pretty unspectacular weekend all round.

 

[kained&able]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=30301

what kimi says about the new mclaren.

also button wasn't outshone by sato. sato may have had a dnam good race but he didn't finish so button quite clearly did better then him. and since when has a poidium been unspectacular.


itv are reorting webber to either toyota or williams next year if jaguar finsih 6th in the constructors.


dave

 

[g force]

Webber to Toyota? Hmmm...I suppose the car could get better with Gascoigne overseeing the new model but that seems a bit of a risk. I expect him to driving a Williams or Renault. Flavio is playing a clever game to get his guy some $$$$ but he might not want to mess with Frank - he could Fisi and Hiedfeld for a fraction of the money.

Jag are royally screwed at the mo - HSBC are pulling their sponsorship at the end of the season so they'll need to get money from somewhere and I don't think Ford will be too chuffed at coughing it up. Plenty of rumours of them pulling out, but with the new engine rules coming in a few years they can, in theory, use the IRL engine as the basis for F1 - presuming they keep it as 2.4 V8.

As for JB - he had a good weekend - he finished 3rd. Sato may have been quick but it's all is own fault he didn't get 2nd. He had Rubens all he had to do was choose the correct place to overtake! As Brundle mentioned if you listen to the BAR Sato has the thing on the rev limiter constantly, straining the engine, whereas Button is far smoother in his acceleration. No surprise it blew!

 

[the B]

Well, Toyota does have one of the best engines according to the acoustics test and it has the second biggest budget - so it's kind of going down the BAR, throw lots of money route...

I think JB had a bad weekend, he got third but it was an unremarkable drive and he was (up until the engine blow up) beaten by his team mate.

I don't think Sato was going to overtake Rubens actually, he wasn't going to get him when he tried and by the next lap round, his tyres would have lost the performance edge.

Not sure about those differences in driving style, I don't remember it but hohum...

 

[the B]

Sato says he'll do his amateurish mistake again: http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=30335

Someone on Ernie's betting thread has put £500 on Trulli winning the Canadian GP...surely there's only the slimmest chance of that happening...

 

[g force]

£500 on Trulli....Well Renault traditionally does fairly well in Canada but lets face it unless MS gets punted off he's gonna win - Renualt, BAR, Williams fighting for the other places!!!!

B did you see ? I've really warmed to him but he did say that he felt Rubens could have made more room. Back in the studio Colin McRae, Plato (who is hardly one to talk), Herbert ande a few others said he was vastly talented but the move was never on and then made the rev limiter point again to explain engine failure.

Great chat about Ralf's inability to drive and how he's managing to talk his way out of every seat. Hebert said he must be kidding if he wants that much $$ for such poor results and thought he wouldn't even be in a "top" team next season. So Toyota it is then!

 

[the B]

Renault haven't done well in Canda in the past...haven't won there since 1994.

Canada is a low downforce, big on engine performance track and I can't see Renault doing that well there...I can see the Williams troubling them. On the betting shop thread I was tempted to put something on a Ferrari 1-2 but Barrichello has been rubbish at Canada...so I thought maybe Schumacher and Button - settled on Schumacher winning and getting the fastest lap...

 

[g force]

Yep seems like good money too judging by the thread! Button will be challenging but not winning, JPM maybe but I just can't understand the Williams at the moment. Think Trulli should be top 4.

If Sato keeps it together he'll be up there, and maybe Fisi in the Sauber thanks to the engine. McLaren - who knows..

 

[the B]

Williams do have a strong car for Canada and their car hasn't been totally uncompetitive in this season - they did get a good second place this season (although this was back at Malaysia) and their record at Canada is good.

Have a feeling Sato will break his car again, the Mercedes engines will probably let go too. Don't think Fisi will do that well - suspect the Toyotas will finally put together a performance worth their money over the other midfield teams.

 

[the B]

BAR's boss - David Richards - doesn't want two Brits driving for BAR, commerical reasons, so it seems unlikely he'll get a drive with Button.

Jacques Villneuve has said he's had no offers for a seat in any car next year.

 

[g force]

Top GP again - even with the DQ's - a good fight and some great drives.

Once again Ralf becomes the mid-season enigma - if he can drive that fast (with ot without brake ducts) in Canada why can't he do it the rest of the time

A big to Sato for his 360 at the hairpin - the guy needs to calm it a bit - he's becoming the new Massa!!!

For me the two drivers of the weekend were Glock and Fisi. I really hope Fisi gets a decent drive next season - Williams would be superb. Qualified that car really well with so much fuel on board. Glock showed really good race craft in a car that, let's face it, is a bit shit! I think he will have impressed a fair few people.

Felt bad for Trulli - weird DQ and he would have been well up there.

 

[g force]

I will not let this thread die!!!

Ralf is definitely out of the French GP, and possibly Biritsh GP too - likely to be replaced by Williams tester Marc Gene. Oh dear....

Looks like MS will have a free run unless JPM can get his act together.

And thankfully, they've decied to qually as it is, for now:

No qualifying changes

 

[the B]

I was wondering how this thread was as I've been offline for a while...

BAR should be competitive in France - they have a car that would seem to run well there.

And no qualifying changes please - it suits Michellin shod cars above and beyond Bridgestones by miles.

Also, many cars this season were not designed with fully modifable race fuel - ie. they have much smaller tanks.

I think qualifying should be left for the rest of the season, it's past the half-way mark, the little teams would lose money, it'd be the third system this year...

MP19-B might be racing at France, there were rumours that got quashed about Ferrari cheating by spraying agents on their tyres to increase grip, F1 cars are definately going around the West End bits of London on July 6th

 

[g force]

Am excited by the F1 thing as I work on Regent St - the noise will be amazing.

Agree that BAR should be competive in France - I really want to see Sato and Button racing with no car problems to see what happens. I think Sato might edge it TBH, he's really developing into a good racer but needs to cut out the silly mistakes.

I'm unsure about the new McLaren - plenty of noises about how fast it is but as we all know testing counts for jack in F1. I shoudl hope it's a second a lap faster becuase it couldn't really be much slower unless the team name ended in "ardi".

Seeks like Ralf will be out for a long time now they've discovered he has hairline factures in his spine Might be back for Brazil, but I wonder if Williams will bother seeing as he's off at the end of the season.

And of course that means there's a seat going - Gene might race in France but I doubt they'd give him or Antonio Crashonia the drive for 3-4 GPs. I hear there's a certain french canadian lookign for a drive

 

[the B]

I have a feeling the cars won't be going round too quickly...Regent Street would be VERY bumpy compared to what F1 cars usually run on.

Sato, in theory, is the driver with the most improving to make, he's been driving for a short time, realtively, only about 6 or 7 years I think. I'm not sure he's that good a driver, nothing about him stands out apart from him being 'expensive' as Eddie Jordan put it...

The new McLaren is meant to be about half of a second quicker - it is that much faster around Silverstone compared to the 'original' contender for this year.

Villeneuve has been in touch with Williams but he's not due for a test drive until August, can see that being bumped up - could also maybe see Williams asking to get Webber in the car now and let Jaguar try and find something to do with an empty seat.

 

[g force]

True, but the BAR ran at goodwood hill and was okay. Still gonna be might noisy The thing about Sato is he's willing to have a go unlike a lot of people and that makes it interesting.

Webber could happen - Renault are keeping their drivers so it's his only option. I wonder who will partner him - I can't see Williams taking JV on again. Hopefully it will be someone young - Davidson or Wirdheim

As for Jag....losing Webber, head of F1 publicly slating Klein - well done that'll do his confidence the world of good ...it's getting worse by the minute. I expect to see them further down the grid next season and who knows if new teams come in 2006 they may not bother at all! not that I have any sympathy - Wilson did a great job and instead they chose a guy with prodigous, but unproven, talent and a nice fat cheque from Red Bull.

 

[the B]

People say Montoya is willing to 'have a go' and I think it makes him a cock sometimes, I think the same of Sato if he does stuff like he did at the Nurburgring.

I think Jaguar are looking particularly troubled, it doesn't seem like they have any way of getting out of the back of the grid.

Ralf is looking out for 12 weeks or so and Gene is taking his seat for the meantime. He has two fractures in his spine.

 

[wordie]

I expect to see them further down the grid next season and who knows if new teams come in 2006 they may not bother at all! not that I have any sympathy - Wilson did a great job and instead they chose a guy with prodigous, but unproven, talent and a nice fat cheque from Red Bull.

They can't get much further down the grid than they are... Can they?

Ford are a bunch of wankers anyway and they'll pull out if not next year, the year after. Money on it!

Wilson, Webber and anyone half decent are well out of it.

As for the image loss for Jaguar cars. It will all be glossed over with PR, but the buyers will know and remember, them as the bunch that couldn't cut it at the sharp end. But then a Jag today is simply a Mondeo in fancy dress, no?

Next year, Webber will be with Davidson in the "much faster" Williams.

The new McLaren will fail. Too late in the season to be building a fast car. It's only a stopgap til next year, and I think you'll see Daimler-Chrysler buying the whole team and running it into the ground...

Put your money on BAR winning at least one race this year and competing for the Championship next year... but maybe NOT with Button!

But then that's only my opinion and like they say, "What the fuck do I know...."

 

[the B]

Wilson is doing Champ cars - he'd love an F1 drive - even in a team that isn't performing too well because it might lead to better drives...

Davidson getting the Williams drive? Don't see it happening...Williams will want at least one experienced driver and neither are that experienced.

I don't think the new McLaren will fail, on at least a few tracks - it'll put them into a reasonably competitive position. Half a second is nothing to sneeze at per lap in F1 and it's got more reliable - which has generally been their biggest problem.

I don't think you can put money on BAR will win a race - but which race do you actually think they are going to be competing for a win at - or even less likely I suppose making them the Ferraris chase them at...Hungary will the next race I think the Ferrari will lose it's gap over the rest of the field but that will be to Renault rather than BAR I think.

 

[mears]

Is Williams driver lineup set for next year? I was under the impression Scott Dixon (Currently in the IRL) will get a seat at Williams. He has had a couple of tests that I thought went well. Dixon drives for Chip Ganassi, who fielded Montoya and Zanardi in CART.

 

[wordie]

Dixon drives for Chip Ganassi, who fielded Montoya and Zanardi in CART.

Yeah right, and neither Montoya nor Zanardi have exactly set the F1 world alight! (I'm not saying they're not good drivers though - just haven't come up with the goods their Stateside performances promised. Sorry!)

Dixon won't get Frank's nod 'cos of his experience with Zanardi. Williams need a strong reason to have a driver in their cars and Webber has proved he's quick, and hungry, and he's Aussie... (it's a history thing.) They'll choose Davidson cos he's a Brit, he's damn fast and he's cheap.

I think you can forget JV simply because he's been out a year, it's been a while since he was competitive (in a competitive car) and they didn't really see eye to eye when JV won the championship. Then he jumped ship for big heaps of wonga! Not the sort of thing that Frank respects.

Fisi might get a run, but I reckon Webber and Davidson are a done deal.

the B, I see what you're saying about BAR, but I reckon they're on a roll, and Dave R will force them to stay on it. Hungary is the one they'll win. Or Japan. Next year, watch out for mega action between Ferrari and BAR.

Why? Because Honda like the taste of champagne even more than Ferrari do!

I reckon Barrichello is about to rebel and he'll upset the nice cosy apple cart. He's made his money so he'll be wanting to prove he's more than a good journeyman anytime soon. Of course, you can do a lot with a car from a laptop in the pits, so expect to see a lot of Barrichello/Ferrari unreliability if he threatens the status quo. But he will de-stabilise the shiny happy people in red causing them to take their eye off the ball.

Oh, and another tip for 2005. Jaguar becomes Red BUll Ford. And will continue to occupy the back of the grid along with Minardi.

Why? Because Ford want a way out asap, and dealing with the Ford board is easier (and cheaper) than dealing with Stoddard or Jordan.

As always, this is all merely my, admittedly cynical view of the future. Let's see if it's all a load of bollocks, or maybe, just maybe, there's some reality in there. I dunno.

 

[the B]

Rubens will race til his contract goes I think, end of 2006.

JV is due to test the Williams in August, so he's still in with a shot at a seat - the Williams driver line up has not been confirmed. They wil get Webber I think - unless Jaguar pull off some very sudden and unexpected performances, his contract says he must leave Jaguar. It's known Coulthard won't get the seat, I think Fisi wants the seat but Williams doesn't seem to want him for some reason...

I see what you mean about Frank and JV not getting on, but Willliams need a good driver at the moment and JV is still considered pretty quick - he's probably faster than Davidson.

Davidson is deceptively fast in practice times - I'm not sure he's that good but I'm open to being proved wrong on that one - the Friday practice times he does are in a 'tweaked' BAR that is often also testing experimental parts and run on low fuel (not like Davidson will race so why give him a car designed to last a race).

I can't see the BAR winning in Japan, possibly Hungary but it's a track that really does suit the Renault. The BAR's strength appears to stability in longer, sweeping corners and brake balance - might help a bit in Japan with the 130R but one corner doesn't make a track (although it is a very important corner!)

 

[g force]

We all know Ant gets a different Honda engine and that contributes to the stunning times compared to Button or Sato. BUT give him credit - at Monaco he drove the circuit for the first time ever and got the car to be second fastest. That is one talented driver - but whether he get's a seat or not is a different matter.

I reallty think Fisi is holding out for a Ferrari seat but by the time either RB or MS go he'll be too old.

I can see why JV would be exciting but he's had his time and I think someone else should get the drive. If he's immediately fast then that may help his cause but i'm not sure Frank, or Patrick Head like him and although Head is retirign he still has a lot of sway at Williams.

Personally i'd like to see Hiedfeld get the seat - he's talented, quick, and perhaps crucially for the politics involved he's German.

I'm not sure Ford will even bother if a new team comes in 2006. They may go back to pure engine supply, which might help Minardi and Jordan, but it's clear top management are losing patience with F1 - although they've got no one to blame but themselves - Stewart was an upcoming team and they single handedly destroyed it by employing Herbert and Irvine as drivers. The whoel Lauda/Rahal debacle then unsettled the team.

Red Bull might step in, in which case you can expect 2 young drivers from their academy to get the seats.