2004 F1 Championship

[the B]

There is a chance of there being 19 GP next season - beneficial to the sport or not?

 

[g force]

Not if 17 are won by one driver

I dunno - i'm all for introducing new tracks and new places but TBH if they're all designed by Tilke there's no point tuning in. It might mean they keep San Marino, which doesn't bother me but they really need to scrap the "European GP" it's utter toss.

Rumours of another US GP at Watkins Glen which I think would be great - and is likely given that the US is a big market for BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ford/Jag. India will probably have a GP within 5 years, and of course there's Russia too.

Some variety would be good - my suggestion (which will never happen) is make the Indy, or maybe even bring in Rockingham and have a pure oval race, and then a couple more street races, one at Surfers Paradise, and one in the US.

There are so many great circuits in the US that could be used, places like Elkhart Lake (Laguna Seca ain't gonna happen) that they should be racing on.

The only problem I forsee is that in expanding the calender it might mean brinign back places like A1 Ring until new circuits are built. Personally i'd liek to see Mexico return, if only for that final bend and bring back Paul Ricard, Dijon and Estoril for some proper old school tracks!

 

[the B]

I think the problem of having too many races in a season is that it restricts car development too much by limiting the amount of testing that can be done.

 

[g force]

But i think that's the whole idea isn't it - they want less testing because the more cars have unpredictable reliability the more they think people will want to watch.

Less testing might also mean cars reach their potential towards the end of the season making the championship closer and, in theory, giving more teams a chance at winning the early GPs. The FIA also seem to think that by crammign more GPs in and less development time it will solve their idea of slowing the cars down, which I think is misguided.

They'd still get the off season - a good 4 months to work on the new models, because they want GP's grouped together so that european-based GP's would happen every 2 weeks.

 

[the B]

The cars can be made reliable to suit the fact there is less testing - I think the important thing about testing is that it means the season can change.

2003 was an exciting season because the McLaren started out the fastest, then it went to Ferrari, then to Williams and back to Ferrari...

The drawback of testing is that it's expensive to do.

I don't think the FIA would view reducing testing as the most effective way to slowing cars down compared to changing the rules (probably on tyres).

 

[g force]

2nd Friday session over. Rain affected first session saw JPM crash heavily and some drivers didn't come out for the second session hence the slow times:


1 Cristiano Da Matta (BRA) Toyota 1:15.518
2 Jarno Trulli (ITA) Renault 1:16.206 +0:00.688
3 Jenson Button (GBR) BAR 1:16.397 +0:00.879
4 Michael Schumacher (GER) Ferrari 1:16.397 +0:00.879
5 Fernando Alonso (ESP) Renault 1:16.454 +0:00.936
6 David Coulthard (GBR) McLaren 1:16.464 +0:00.946
7 Mark Webber (AUS) Jaguar 1:16.745 +0:01.227
8 Kimi Räikkönen (FIN) McLaren 1:16.794 +0:01.276
9 Rubens Barrichello (BRA) Ferrari 1:17.094 +0:01.576
10 Olivier Panis (FRA) Toyota 1:17.303 +0:01.785
11 Giancarlo Fisichella (ITA) Sauber 1:17.324 +0:01.806
12 Juan Pablo Montoya (COL) Williams 1:17.556 +0:02.038
13 Marc Gené (ESP) Williams 1:17.688 +0:02.170
14 Ricardo Zonta (BRA) Toyota 1:17.735 +0:02.217
15 Christian Klien (AUT) Jaguar 1:17.936 +0:02.418
16 Takuma Sato (JPN) BAR 1:17.967 +0:02.449
17 Anthony Davidson (GBR) BAR 1:17.979 +0:02.461
18 Felipe Massa (BRA) Sauber 1:18.614 +0:03.096
19 Bjorn Wirdheim (SWE) Jaguar 1:19.179 +0:03.661
20 Nick Heidfeld (GER) Jordan 1:19.270 +0:03.752
21 Gianmaria Bruni (ITA) Minardi 1:19.349 +0:03.831
22 Timo Glock (GER) Jordan 1:19.490 +0:03.972
23 Zsolt Baumgartner (HUN) Minardi 1:19.636 +0:04.118
24 Bas Leinders (BEL) Minardi 1:19.914 +0:04.396
25 Giorgio Pantano (ITA) Jordan 1:20.226 +0:04.708

MS has said speeds need to be cut to avoid a fatal crash - on BBC site - don't have a link

 

[the B]

I didn't post practice times since they were pretty much useless...fantastic grand prix today, I found it thrilling anyway Trulli was a complete muppet to lose his podium place like that - must be kicking himself like Raikonnen did in 2002...

The new McLaren is significantly more race-y than the previous model I think...they have the potential to compete with Williams overall now (rather than face being beaten by Sauber)

I think Jaguar had a decent race and were unlucky they didn't get a point (or better) since 18 of the cars finished - quite different from the last GP where there were 8 'finishers' and 9 classified.

The Tuesday F1 cars going through the West End should be very I'm looking at the route of it all and think it should be quite good. Think it would be better if they did Oxford Street and then got onto Park Lane when heading back to Piccadilly/Pall Mall but nevermind, I'm chuffed enough with the situation as it is

I've sorted out the digital video camera and will attempt to practice using it to record moving things - been reading up and almost thought about posting a thread in photography to break me into that forum (since I have no mono or tripod I have a feeling it will look rubbish though....)

 

[wordie]

I didn't post practice times since they were pretty much useless...fantastic grand prix today, I found it thrilling anyway Trulli was a complete muppet to lose his podium place like that - must be kicking himself like Raikonnen did in 2002...

Were we watching the same GP? I thought it was less exciting than watching paint dry. Sorry, but apart from Barrichello getting the jump on Trulli at the penultimate corner, the other 119 mins were a complete waste of time.

 

[the B]

It wasn't a 'spectacle' type of race...there was not much 'on the track' overtaking but I thought the way the strategies were playing out was

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

Well there was really quite a bit of on track excitement, just the director decided it would be better showing us alonso for the entire race

 

[g force]

That could have been a great GP if the director had bothered...okay so Alonso leading for a change made a difference but the battles further down were great.

And a big at JB - try attacking you muppet - lost a sure 3rd place with some really poor driving. Same goes fro Trulli...still had a great GP but really should have been on the podium.

Pleased McLaren were more competitive - bodes well for later in the year - although there's still a way to go before it's a contender. Williams had a shocker - can't really blame Gene - he's a tester and hasn't raced for a while, but JPM was poor - apparently had a sore back from Friday's accident.

 

[the B]

The Williams never seemed to get set-up correctly...as for dodgy directing, the British GP will surely be the worst offender - going to see muppet Button for ages...

 

[g force]

Or DC pootling round in 6th place for 50 laps...oh the joy

I can only pray that we have a decent grid like in France to keep up some sort of pretence of interest. At least with JB doing well you'd hope a decent crowd will turn up.

I really don't know what is going on at Williams. I think, in theory, the nose design works and at least it means there's something a bit different on the grid but i'd be surprised if it stays for next season. There's something very wrong with the chassis t..the engine may not be the quickest anymore but the handling is way behind Ferrari, BAR and Renault.

You could tell the car wasn't happy on the curbs, while the BAR and Ferrari looked fine.

I was surprised by Gene - I thought he'd be quicker seeing as he's driven that car more than anyone else. I think we can count him out of the Williams seat for 05 unless he pulls soemthing spectacular (top 5 at least) in GB.

 

[the B]

The 2003 Williams was also a rubbish car for a while - then at around this point in the season they suddenly became very dominant. I think it's too late for anyone to make a late charge for the title though.

The nose isn't that critical an element of the car compared to the rear wing assembly and it seems like so much of their improvement was pinned on that and it just feels like Williams haven't changed the car that much from last year (judging by the lap times they are putting out when considering improvements in tyres).

What would make Silverstone interesting is rain

 

[g force]

Rain would be good - approximately half way though the 2nd qualifying session would make it very interesting!

Bruni for pole

I think if everyone was being honest they're looking to 05 already and given the championship to Ferrari. Many of the improvements we will see later this year will be parts they're testing for 05. I imagine Zonta and Davidson will both have some interesting engine/gearbox/aero developments pretty soon to run on Friday.

McLaren has said as much already after the 19-4 was so poor. Williams are still trying to find a 2nd driver - if we assume that Webber has signed and Renault need to get some more power to really compete.

Toyota will have a brand new Gascoigne-developed car (although Ralf driving it may not help), Sauber may finally get that wind tunnel working and I pray Jordan can find some money/steal a decent engine for Nick to show his talent.

Jaguar look like a team resigned to mediocrity forever more. And Minardi are Minardi.

 

[the B]

I can't see Toyota 'getting good' too soon. They are using the 'throw money' route to success, which will eventually work - BAR is evidence of it being possible to get success with enough money (although they haven't won a race yet).

I don't think the Renault is as underpowered as people think, they tend to go for faster lap times rather than setting the car up for overtaking.

I don't think Nick will stay with Jordan, there are marginally better cars with seats available - even Jaguar...

 

[g force]

Not much of a choice though is it for a guy who is clearly talented?

I think Toyota will be far quicker to improve than BAR - Gascoigne knows how to build a car and if they get the right drivers to develop it will be in with a hsout of podiums within 2 years. Problem at the moment is I can't see how a Ralf/Pains partnership is going to help them on race days.

BAR's problem stemmed from losing some of technical guys after a couple of seasons which left Pollock to lead the team and by all accounts he didn't bother and left it to Jacques, which in turn angered BAR staff. When Honda started having more overall input they were *allegedly* shocked by how unprofessional BAR were in testing and development. It's noticable how much Honda like JB because he's bothered to visit the engine team in Japan a few times. The result: car is more comeptive and they've started acting like a team rather than the JV and Pollock show.

Toyota are different - they won't rest until that car is competitive. Sadly, I think choosing Ralf is the biggest mistake they could make.

 

[the B]

I think Nick was unlucky - he outperformed Raikkonen in the season he was at Sauber but it was Kimi who got the McLaren drive and almost won the world title...

Is Panis confirmed for next season as a Toyota driver? I can see him leaving very soon, his best career days are over (well, a win in a Ligier at Monaco ) and he isn't going to get a good drive...I reckon Nick might want a seat at Toyota but I don't seem them taking two German drivers for sponsorship reasons.

I don't think Ralf is a bad driver, just not that good - he's not his brother by some way.

In two years, F1 will be very different and I think this might help Toyota get competitive faster than BAR - but not that much faster...unless they take another massive step in spending, top drivers will continue looking for a seat with the established top teams.

 

[wordie]

Sadly, I think choosing Ralf is the biggest mistake they could make.

Sadly, I think you're right!

I don't think Ralf is a bad driver, just not that good - he's not his brother by some way.

Well I think that's understating the situation quite considerably. I think, if he was called Ralf Somethingelse, he'd have to pay for a drive in a Minardi.... and even then Stoddard would need big heaps of it!

 

[g force]

B - Even though Toyota are japanese, as you know they're based in Cologne, so Hiedfeld might be in with a shout - but, i'd heard they were keeping Panis.

An error, I think, but he is apparently one of the best testers around and the car needs development.

Wordie - nah Ralf isn't that bad, even though i'm sure his name didn't exactly hurt in any way. The problem with Ralf is he's too hot and cold - on his day with the car under him not many can keep up with him, not even his brother had an answer in a couple of GPs last season. He had some great races in the Jordan before Frank Williams signed him - plus the BMW Williams was a bit of a dog to start with

But, and it's a very big 'but', when he's struggling he looks like he can't be bothered. His brother by contrast fights to the very end, even if the car isn't perfect.

Now, if we consider where Toyota are on the gird, and what the car is like, it will take at least 2 seasons before they challenge for podiums. Can't see Ralf racing for 10th place for that long.

Compare that to talented people who can't get a "decent" drive: Hiedfeld, Villenueve, Webber, Davidson, plus some of the big names in the US who have expressed an interest in F1 - Franchitti, Dixon, Junquiera, Yoong (spot the odd one out ) and some of the up and coming guys being courted like Wirdhiem, Luzzi, Toccacelo, Giammaria and Enge and you get the distinct impression he's living on borrowed time.

May as well bugger off and join Frentzen and Alesi in DTM!

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

Ah but doesn't Villeneuve have the same kind of attitude? When things go wrong he doesn't really seem to dig deeper and is merely content to trail around to the end. A bit like Montoya has this season.

Unfortunately the deciding factor for too many teams in F1 is not talent but sponsor appeal.

 

[the B]

Yeah, a result of the cost of F1 getting so high...

I'm going to be at F1 job tomorrow in London, I'll post some hopefully not too rubbish photos or stills from digital video footage...

 

[g force]

Bah can't bloody make the F1 demo thanks to work!!! And I work on bloody Regent St - so I may just hang out of the window.

Saw the Farrari guys this morning in the 'pit' area down by the IoD looking relaxed and having a laugh with.....Anthony Davidson Ant for Ferrari! The BAR guys were just wondering the streets.

There's a great little spectactor stand there too but I guess it will be rammed

Couple of Jordans there as well - got to say it looks really nice up close, shame it's so slow

 

[the B]

That was so

I have some nice footage, I was opposite the Tower records right up at the front near the 'Olympus Bend' and will post some pics if I can be bothered to sort it all out...

The sound was great The baby near me was so scared it wet itself right through the nappy and into a puddle on the floor...

 

[the B]

Ralf Schumacher has been confirmed for Toyota for 3 whole years...

Aggregate qualifying and any major change to the system will probably not be in place until next season if at all.

Bernie wants it to be possible for points to be scored based on qualifying performance (a bad idea, very bad if the system stays with qualifying on race level fuel)

 

[wordie]

ooops, I just posted the Schumacer thing in a seperate thread.

Can someone merge them?

 

[g force]

Bah! and i've just commented on it too

Big mistake from toyota, but frankly if they've got money to waste they deserve each other. An average team with an average driver.

 

[wordie]

Blimey! It's Silverstone this weekend and this thread's about to drop off the edge of the page...

Anyway, what does the team think about the chance of an upset this weekend re: the unseasonal weather?

If it's a wet, or better still, wet & dry GP, which team (apart from Ferrari) will handle it best?

Answers in a post please!

 

[wordie]

Oh, and another thing, Ralf is squealing about not taking the Toyota seat simply for the dosh!

So if it's not the money but the glory, it must be one of these reasons:

1.) He's doing it because they're the front running team that's won loads of Chapmpionships before, and will again?

2.) Or because of the massive leaps in competitiveness the team have shown in the last few seasons?

3.) Or maybe it's because he thinks he's a better test driver than Panis, and can do a much better job of getting a dog to perform?

Cynical? Me? Nah....

Personally, I don't think he could beat Rubens if he was given his brothers Ferrari.... but hey, what do I know?

 

[g force]

I guess he's realised that there's no leadign drive to be had so he's gone to the team with the most potential to improve.

Fairly clever - if they improve he can take the credit, if they don't he bags the money, blames the team and walks away from F1 considerably richer. Win-Win either way for him.

I still think he's one of the most average drivers out there. I'm not convinved that he'll do anything next season but 06 could be interesting.

Anyway Silverstone: I hope it's a wet/dry qualy session just to make it interesting. Either way I can't see MS being beaten - think McLaren may have their best GP of the season, and the usual suspects - JPM, Button, Alonso, Trulli, Sato will be in with a shout.