Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
she had been recruited by sis
1914-18 : The Great Slaughter - Challenging A Year Of Myth Making.
- Thread starter taffboy gwyrdd
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Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
cavell also got a much fairer trial than the kangaroo court which ordered the shooting of the less virtueous and Anglican Mata Hari.
stowpirate
skinflintish camera nut
Just more dangerous than being in the front line. Ironic it was treason and not spying?
stowpirate
skinflintish camera nut
Didn't she seal her own fate by exaggerating under questioning?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
are you saying she was.not a spy?
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
We invade your country and if you do anything to resist us we will shoot you for treason!
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Well they still intended to shoot her from the start so hardly fair.
If the Germans didn't shoot her might encourage further acts of resistance. If they do shoot her the world see them as the cruel evil bastards that their regime was. Not actually much of a dilemma for the Germans was it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Technically, she was someone providing information to British intelligence, rather than actually "spying", but she was nonetheless working for British intelligence.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Such as there are hundreds of thousands of Germans in Belgium in a big trench if you look out of your trench you might see them?
Not exactly war ending stuff was it?
Sorry just had to sit through an int brief which boils down to we might be murdered by terrorists ,but, almost certainly won't be ,but, just in case be careful out there.
. So really want to smack a spook about now.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes because the british never executed sir roger casement for treason
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
can you name a regime not composed of cruel evil bastards?
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
shed admitted her guilt from the beginning, so it seems fair enough
they were no more cruel and evil than the regimes that shot Ms Hari, in fact less so if you want to start totting up death tolls.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
this particular country was Belgium wasnt it. Gallant little Belgium that invaded the congo and did stuff like this to the locals, often just for not performing their slave labour duties hard enough
I think those particular kids didnt meet their rubber quota that week. And the Anglo Belgian India Rubber company chopped their hands and feet off for it.
Roger Casement became known as a world renowned humanitarian after exposing these Belgian atrocities. That didnt stop Britian from executing him for resisting the occupation of his own country.
andysays
Love and solidarity
And so because some, possibly many, Belgians were responsible for atrocities in the Congo, you're arguing that all of them were collectively guilty and got what they deserved when the German state invaded a neutral country and executed/murdered/carried out their own atrocities on those who resisted.
Well done Casually Red, just when I thought you couldn't fall any further in my estimation...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think you'll find that the congo was for most if not all the period before the first world war the personal possession of the belgian monarchy and not a belgian colony as suchthis particular country was Belgium wasnt it. Gallant little Belgium that invaded the congo and did stuff like this to the locals, often just for not performing their slave labour duties hard enough
I think those particular kids didnt meet their rubber quota that week. And the Anglo Belgian India Rubber company chopped their hands and feet off for it.
Roger Casement became known as a world renowned humanitarian after exposing these Belgian atrocities. That didnt stop Britian from executing him for resisting the occupation of his own country.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
It became an official Belgian colony in 1908, IIRC.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
cheers
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
no, i dont think I will. It became an official Belgian colony sometime around 1908 . Im surprised you didnt know that .
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you haven't understood my post
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Bbc4 history of the war starts this evening. I wonder if the shots of Sarajevo on the path of Franz Ferdinand's last journey deliberately focused on the German army of occupation European peace keepers
I tend to agree with General Flashman in George Macdonald Fraser's book Mr American:
"Mr Franklin asked the General what he thought of the war situation. The old man shrugged.
"Contemptible - but then it always is. We should stay out and to hell with Belgium. After all it's stretching things to say we're committed to them and we'd be doing them a favour - and the Frogs too."
"By not protecting them you mean? I don't quite see that"
"You wouldn't - because like most idiots you think of war as being between states - coloured blobs on the map. You think if we can keep Belgium green, or whatever colour it is, instead of Prussian blue, then hurrah for everyone. But war ain't between coloured blobs it's between people... Imagine yourself a Belgian - in Liege say. Along come the Prussians and invade you. What about it? - a few cars commandeered, a shop or two looted, half a dozen girls knocked up, a provost marshal installed and the storm's passed. Fierce fighting with the Frogs, who squeal like hell because Britain refuses to help, the Germans reach Paris, peace concluded and that's that. And there you are, getting on with your garden in Liege. But" - the General waved a bony finger. " Suppose Britain helps - sends forces to aid little Belgium - and the Frogs - against the Teuton horde? What then? Belgian resistance is stiffened, the Frogs manage to stop the invaders, a hell of a war is waged all over Belgium and north east France, and after God knows how much slaughter and destruction the Germans are beat - or not as the case may be. How's Liege doing? I'll tell you - it's a bloody shambles. You're lying mangled in your cabbage patch, your wife's had her legs blown off, your daughters have been raped, and your house is a mass of rubble. You're a lot better off for British intervention aren't you?" He sat back grinning sardonically.
"By that reckoning," said Mr Franklin, "no one would ever stand up to a brute or a bully"
"Course they would - when it was worth while. You don't remember the war of 1870 - when those same Germans marched on Paris. Smallish war- but suppose we'd been helping the Frogs then? It wouldn't have been over half so quick, and God knows how many folk would have died who are still happily going about their business in Alsace and Lorraine. Same thing today - we should simply tell the Kaiser that if his fleet puts its nose out of the Baltic we'll send it to the bottom - that satisfies the Frogs up to a point, since it guarantees ther northern coast, it satisfies the Kaiser who'll swallow his pride for the sake of keeping us out of the war, and it save his pretty little ships as well. And five years from now, Liege will be doing rather well - whether it's got a German provost marshal still or not. And that won't matter a damn, to people whose main concern is eating, drinking, fornicating, making money and seeing their children grow up safe and healthy"
"Mr Franklin asked the General what he thought of the war situation. The old man shrugged.
"Contemptible - but then it always is. We should stay out and to hell with Belgium. After all it's stretching things to say we're committed to them and we'd be doing them a favour - and the Frogs too."
"By not protecting them you mean? I don't quite see that"
"You wouldn't - because like most idiots you think of war as being between states - coloured blobs on the map. You think if we can keep Belgium green, or whatever colour it is, instead of Prussian blue, then hurrah for everyone. But war ain't between coloured blobs it's between people... Imagine yourself a Belgian - in Liege say. Along come the Prussians and invade you. What about it? - a few cars commandeered, a shop or two looted, half a dozen girls knocked up, a provost marshal installed and the storm's passed. Fierce fighting with the Frogs, who squeal like hell because Britain refuses to help, the Germans reach Paris, peace concluded and that's that. And there you are, getting on with your garden in Liege. But" - the General waved a bony finger. " Suppose Britain helps - sends forces to aid little Belgium - and the Frogs - against the Teuton horde? What then? Belgian resistance is stiffened, the Frogs manage to stop the invaders, a hell of a war is waged all over Belgium and north east France, and after God knows how much slaughter and destruction the Germans are beat - or not as the case may be. How's Liege doing? I'll tell you - it's a bloody shambles. You're lying mangled in your cabbage patch, your wife's had her legs blown off, your daughters have been raped, and your house is a mass of rubble. You're a lot better off for British intervention aren't you?" He sat back grinning sardonically.
"By that reckoning," said Mr Franklin, "no one would ever stand up to a brute or a bully"
"Course they would - when it was worth while. You don't remember the war of 1870 - when those same Germans marched on Paris. Smallish war- but suppose we'd been helping the Frogs then? It wouldn't have been over half so quick, and God knows how many folk would have died who are still happily going about their business in Alsace and Lorraine. Same thing today - we should simply tell the Kaiser that if his fleet puts its nose out of the Baltic we'll send it to the bottom - that satisfies the Frogs up to a point, since it guarantees ther northern coast, it satisfies the Kaiser who'll swallow his pride for the sake of keeping us out of the war, and it save his pretty little ships as well. And five years from now, Liege will be doing rather well - whether it's got a German provost marshal still or not. And that won't matter a damn, to people whose main concern is eating, drinking, fornicating, making money and seeing their children grow up safe and healthy"
I noticed that, had to do a double take, I didn't know that troops were still there, though I wouldn't call them an army of occupation
the WW1 History series seems quite low key and maybe low budget.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Wasn't it Austro-Hungarian peacekeepers?
That was then, this is now.
I remember AJP Taylor, citing the Franco - Prussian War 1870 -1871 as the rehearsal to WW1. Saying the lessons learned about charging across open fields at cannon and machine guns were not heeded.
The first conflict with killing on an industrial scale.
http://francoprussianwar.com/
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Nope, that was the Crimean war, which ended 5 years before the American Civil War started.
First war photos were taken by John McCosh, and the conflict was the Second Sikh War.
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/A/ap_mccosh.htm
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He's the first known war photographer we can put a name to but there are photos from the Mexican war a few years before his.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I read that too, but a far as I can see its bollox, a simplistic highlighting of a single point of imperialist conflict which was just one amongst a plethora of interconnected inter imperial tensions.
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