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14th November Movement for Left Unity

Of course but - and forgive me for being cynical - if they didn't stand this year I doubt they'd have done much work by next year.
it'll be pointless to stand next year too. That's the same day as the general election, and we saw what happened to pretty much every left candidate standing last time. And that was under a Labour government! When 'the key thing' is to get the tories out, no left candidate has a chance of getting anything other than paltry
 
it'll be pointless to stand next year too. That's the same day as the general election, and we saw what happened to pretty much every left candidate standing last time. And that was under a Labour government! When 'the key thing' is to get the tories out, no left candidate has a chance of getting anything other than paltry
Pathetic
 
It's a hundred years of your Leninism, and this is the sum of it? Can't stand against labour, not in an election year. All the analysis and internet critique and sharp Marxist invective comes down to ... Rolling over and voting labour (without illusions).
Pathetic.
 
it's reality. it is what will happen. at the last election - when labour was still being a bastard in power - nearly every left councillor lost their seat. when labour is in opposition,is will 100% happen again. disillusionment with labour has grown minimally since te last election, and you'd be blind not to see it.

when you play the electoral game, you have to understand how it works, or you just look daft.
 
Thing is, it's precisely what other left lash-ups have been doing for 15 years or so - pop-up electoral politics in the absence of ground work that actually builds a solid base. It offers the possibility of raising their profile but not much else in my view. In fact, the energy expended on deposit-losing endeavors is likely actively harmful to broader goals. I'd love to be proven wrong with Left Unity but there seems to be no good reason to think now the time is ripe for this approach.
 
it's reality. it is what will happen. at the last election - when labour was still being a bastard in power - nearly every left councillor lost their seat. when labour is in opposition,is will 100% happen again. disillusionment with labour has grown minimally since te last election, and you'd be blind not to see it.

when you play the electoral game, you have to understand how it works, or you just look daft.
You can't win when labour are in power you can't win when labour are in opposition.
Then what is the point of you?
 
You can't win when labour are in power you can't win when labour are in opposition.
Then what is the point of you?
are you really this dim?

When labour were in office, but clearly about to lose it, lefties had no chance. why do you think it would be any different when labour are in opposition?
 
are you really this dim?

When labour were in office, but clearly about to lose it, lefties had no chance. why do you think it would be any different when labour are in opposition?

That was four years ago, this is four years hence. The world has been turning. That rule may have served in the past but I'm not so sure it holds now. In any case, we need to lay down the groundwork now for when (if) Labour get into power.
 
IMO it should be possible for a new left party to make some significant impact, possibly even get someone elected at this moment in time, as there's so much dissilusionment with all 3 main parties, all of which have lost a huge proportion of their active supporter base in recent years.

A small but dedicated team with a decent network of support locally, and some actual belief that they're actually going to do it should be able to win a council seat.

Most left wing parties campaigns are doomed to failure due to their lack of believe, and lack of commitment IME, the ones I've seen at least have been a complete farce, and rarely even target anything beyond getting their deposit back. I hope these are approaching this differently.

Yes people are very angry, but that tends to result in not voting more often than voting for a radical alternative they've never heard of. It's really not easy. With commitment and a bit of confidence you can achieve a lot but it's a longer term process to build a base. We stood in a local by election earlier in the year; we had over 30 people actively involved in canvassing and leafleting, we had a small network of supporters through anti-bedroom tax campaigning in the ward and we came 4th out of 8 with 8% of the vote. Would have beaten the Tories if there hadn't been a small storm on the day itself which definitely put off pedestrian voters (they got 8 more votes than us), and I think we did pretty well considering Labour called it in the middle of winter with the shortest possible campaigning time, but regardless I think it shows that its very rare to come from nowhere to bust through the 15% barrier. If Socialist candidates do that, it's a sign of a trend in that area of people consciously identifying with socialist ideas and not simply down to the campaign itself. When you hear things like "I know UKIP are just posh Tories but at least they hate the EU" or "The Greens are quite left wing though aren't they?" on the doorstep, to me it suggests that while there is anger, it's expressed in a very uneven way.
 
IMO it should be possible for a new left party to make some significant impact, possibly even get someone elected at this moment in time, as there's so much dissilusionment with all 3 main parties, all of which have lost a huge proportion of their active supporter base in recent years.

A small but dedicated team with a decent network of support locally, and some actual belief that they're actually going to do it should be able to win a council seat.

Most left wing parties campaigns are doomed to failure due to their lack of believe, and lack of commitment IME, the ones I've seen at least have been a complete farce, and rarely even target anything beyond getting their deposit back. I hope these are approaching this differently.


There was no lack of commitment here when here a local guy, from a family with suffragette history, stood for the Socialist Alliance in a past G/E, massive resources poured in, leafleting every day, etc, vote was still derisory.
 
Somewhere between 200 and 250 comrades attended - around half the number that came to the November meeting in London. Former members of various left groups, plus those from the right-moving detritus of recent splits from the Socialist Workers Party and Workers Power, not to mention established rightwing Trotskyists like those from Socialist Resistance, made up a large bulk of those present
http://cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/1004/left-unity-moderate-party-takes-shape


Very comradely?:rolleyes:
 
There was no lack of commitment here when here a local guy, from a family with suffragette history, stood for the Socialist Alliance in a past G/E, massive resources poured in, leafleting every day, etc, vote was still derisory.
Same in my area, but I think the 'lack of commitment' means an ongoing commitment. They just appear at election time, and aren't seen before or after.
 
There was no lack of commitment here when here a local guy, from a family with suffragette history, stood for the Socialist Alliance in a past G/E, massive resources poured in, leafleting every day, etc, vote was still derisory.

Which G/E?
 

That was 13 years ago - a lot has happened since then, the Iraq war and the global economic crisis for a start. That's not to say it necessarily would be different now but its a hell of a lot easier to campaign against Labour from the left now and certainly easier to get people to agree with you. The biggest challenge is to get people to agree with you and then go out and vote for you. I think those who had illusions in New Labour in 2001 are not the same as those who vote New Labour in 2014 because they see no alternative.
 
fair enough.



https://www.facebook.com/999CallForTheNhs
10150718_543665482421344_2328948390840317118_n.jpg


btw, bit op, but this sounds very positive, a group of mums are organising a national march to save the NHS, it seems to be taking off with lots of people registering to march.

Though August isn't the best time publicity wise, it is school hols though.
 
That was 13 years ago - a lot has happened since then, the Iraq war and the global economic crisis for a start. That's not to say it necessarily would be different now but its a hell of a lot easier to campaign against Labour from the left now and certainly easier to get people to agree with you. The biggest challenge is to get people to agree with you and then go out and vote for you. I think those who had illusions in New Labour in 2001 are not the same as those who vote New Labour in 2014 because they see no alternative.
A lot has happened, and the left vote certainly went up each year after that, getting well into the 10-20% mark for a while. Straight back too a derisory vote when the GE happened. Same time as the SP lost at least one councillor in Coventry, iirr. Concentrate your forces on where you can make a difference, or whee you might be able to make a difference at least. You lot are spreading yourself too thin.
 
Yes people are very angry, but that tends to result in not voting more often than voting for a radical alternative they've never heard of. It's really not easy. With commitment and a bit of confidence you can achieve a lot but it's a longer term process to build a base. We stood in a local by election earlier in the year; we had over 30 people actively involved in canvassing and leafleting, we had a small network of supporters through anti-bedroom tax campaigning in the ward and we came 4th out of 8 with 8% of the vote. Would have beaten the Tories if there hadn't been a small storm on the day itself which definitely put off pedestrian voters (they got 8 more votes than us), and I think we did pretty well considering Labour called it in the middle of winter with the shortest possible campaigning time, but regardless I think it shows that its very rare to come from nowhere to bust through the 15% barrier. If Socialist candidates do that, it's a sign of a trend in that area of people consciously identifying with socialist ideas and not simply down to the campaign itself. When you hear things like "I know UKIP are just posh Tories but at least they hate the EU" or "The Greens are quite left wing though aren't they?" on the doorstep, to me it suggests that while there is anger, it's expressed in a very uneven way.

Good to hear, are you standing again? Have you spent time working out how to do it better next time etc?

FWIW My background includes over a decade of club and event promotion work, effectively doing the equivalent of several election campaigns a month for a decade, and frankly in comparison the vast majority of election campaigns I've seen by any vaguely left wing parties give the impression of being run by well meaning amateurs, but never give the impression of actually standing a chance of winning anything. I've also been peripherally involved in 2 piss poor green party election campaigns run by a few clueless people without any concept of how to actually run a decent campaign or any belief in the potential of actually winning, 2 lib dem campaigns (against the tories), the latter of which really did blanket the area in campaign material and won a huge majority on a largely anti-tory ticket (which obviously proved to be a false ticket, but that's another story)

Winning a seat on an anti-tory ticket is all down to the perception in the minds of the general public of the area about the ubiquity of the campaign, leafleting and canvassing are all vital ingredients, but in perception terms IMO it's the posters that do it in terms of giving people a feel for who's the most realistic anti-tory ticket. For that landslide lib dem campaign I reckon they had as many or more posters out around the area as all other parties combined, and it was relentless, with a 2 man team out for 5-6 weeks solid beforehand banging in the staked boards in supporters gardens, window posters out, and in the run up to the election there were 3 car loads out 2 nights in a row for 6 hours a night sticking hundreds of posterboards up to ensure the entire area was blanketed the day before the election and election day itself.

By comparison the local left wing campaigners (alliance for green socialism) just seemed to have gone through the motions of sticking a few boards up, with probably 100 posters in total across the area whereas the lib dems probably put 500 boards out on the 2 nights before the election alone to top up the hundreds that were already out there.

This was all achieved by a a core active team of maybe a dozen people, supported by another 15-20 or so in the immediate build up to the election, so in numbers terms it shouldn't be that difficult for the likes of Left Unity to pull in that level of active support in an area. The key difference IMO being campaigners who're determined to do what it takes to win, vs campaigners who's primary goal seems to be to avoid losing the deposit, and be able to say that they made a token effort. Obviously the national level exposure makes a major difference, but particularly at local elections it should be possible to overcome that by being seen to be the most active actually on the ground in the area.

Just my opinion of course, but if you don't set out with the goal of actually winning, then you've basically guaranteed that you never will. Start off with that goal then work out the plan of campaign needed to achieve it, and recruit the support needed to make it happen, and actually have that supporter base going out there telling people that they're seriously aiming to win it, and left wing grouplets might just surprise themselves. I doubt there's been a better time to make that sort of breakthrough in my lifetime than right now, the level of anger at all 3 parties is astonishing, and extends across a huge swathe of the population. For starters there's a good 10-15% of the vote made up of former left of centre lib dem voters up for grabs, significantly more in areas where they'd previously done well on an anti-tory ticket.
 
That was 13 years ago - a lot has happened since then, the Iraq war and the global economic crisis for a start. That's not to say it necessarily would be different now but its a hell of a lot easier to campaign against Labour from the left now and certainly easier to get people to agree with you. The biggest challenge is to get people to agree with you and then go out and vote for you. I think those who had illusions in New Labour in 2001 are not the same as those who vote New Labour in 2014 because they see no alternative.
exactly.

campaigning from the left against a government that had introduced the minimum wage, was riding the crest of an economic wave etc is a hell of a lot different to the situation now, and not just from a labour perspective, but also because the lib dems were (rightly or wrongly) perceived by many as being a relatively left of centre social democratic party back then, which really doesn't apply now.
 
Actually,by 2001 it wasn't that hard at all. Livingstone had beaten wotsisname rom Labour for the London mayor, Blair had stopped doing anything radical, the space had opened up.
 
Actually,by 2001 it wasn't that hard at all. Livingstone had beaten wotsisname rom Labour for the London mayor, Blair had stopped doing anything radical, the space had opened up.
opened up for what though, a few percent extra dissilusioned labour voters?

the opinion polls now are showing double the vote for 'others' as in 2001, and the lib dems have lost the support of around 12% of the electorate, mostly from the social democratic / left of centre supporters.

The urge to vote labour on a stop the tory ticket may well apply at the general elections, but not really at a local council election level, and if council elections are fought well and won, then a general election win in that area shouldn't be discounted if the party can portray itself as being in with a serious chance of winning as the leading anti-tory ticket.

I think the radical left was probably a hell of a lot more active in 2001, but the population as a whole is IMO in a state where they're likely to be a lot more receptive to supporting a left wing candidate with a credible well run campaign now than they were in 2001. If not now after the longest recession period in UK history, then when?
 
Respect, bradford east. Don't think they'll keep it at the next GE though.
that, and the greens in Brighton, plus maybe some of the scottish socialist party campaigns would be may main examples of campaigns that really went about their campaigns with a determination to win, and managed to mobilise significant local support and really make their presence felt in the area to the point where there could be little doubt that they had the potential to win the elections there.

One of the things that Galloway does best from what I've seen (from the outside) is instilling the belief in the local campaigners that they actually are fighting to win that election, and to get them to really put the extra effort in to achieving it, recruiting the wider community to join / support the campaign etc.
 
What a load of wank. Griffin has already lost his seat, and it'll go to UKIP, not the Greens.

I agree that focussing on Griffin is a mistake, but I'm not in LU. UKIP will certainly get 2 seats, being closer to that even last time than the greens were to 1. But the real question is wether the greens will beat the LDs for the last one.
 
I agree that focussing on Griffin is a mistake, but I'm not in LU. UKIP will certainly get 2 seats, being closer to that even last time than the greens were to 1. But the real question is wether the greens will beat the LDs for the last one.

Good point. But with a lot of people voting BNP last time, won't a fair portion of that support go to UKIP? I can't see it going to the Greens.
 
Good to hear, are you standing again? Have you spent time working out how to do it better next time etc?

FWIW My background includes over a decade of club and event promotion work, effectively doing the equivalent of several election campaigns a month for a decade, and frankly in comparison the vast majority of election campaigns I've seen by any vaguely left wing parties give the impression of being run by well meaning amateurs, but never give the impression of actually standing a chance of winning anything. I've also been peripherally involved in 2 piss poor green party election campaigns run by a few clueless people without any concept of how to actually run a decent campaign or any belief in the potential of actually winning, 2 lib dem campaigns (against the tories), the latter of which really did blanket the area in campaign material and won a huge majority on a largely anti-tory ticket (which obviously proved to be a false ticket, but that's another story)

Winning a seat on an anti-tory ticket is all down to the perception in the minds of the general public of the area about the ubiquity of the campaign, leafleting and canvassing are all vital ingredients, but in perception terms IMO it's the posters that do it in terms of giving people a feel for who's the most realistic anti-tory ticket. For that landslide lib dem campaign I reckon they had as many or more posters out around the area as all other parties combined, and it was relentless, with a 2 man team out for 5-6 weeks solid beforehand banging in the staked boards in supporters gardens, window posters out, and in the run up to the election there were 3 car loads out 2 nights in a row for 6 hours a night sticking hundreds of posterboards up to ensure the entire area was blanketed the day before the election and election day itself.

By comparison the local left wing campaigners (alliance for green socialism) just seemed to have gone through the motions of sticking a few boards up, with probably 100 posters in total across the area whereas the lib dems probably put 500 boards out on the 2 nights before the election alone to top up the hundreds that were already out there.

This was all achieved by a a core active team of maybe a dozen people, supported by another 15-20 or so in the immediate build up to the election, so in numbers terms it shouldn't be that difficult for the likes of Left Unity to pull in that level of active support in an area. The key difference IMO being campaigners who're determined to do what it takes to win, vs campaigners who's primary goal seems to be to avoid losing the deposit, and be able to say that they made a token effort. Obviously the national level exposure makes a major difference, but particularly at local elections it should be possible to overcome that by being seen to be the most active actually on the ground in the area.

Just my opinion of course, but if you don't set out with the goal of actually winning, then you've basically guaranteed that you never will. Start off with that goal then work out the plan of campaign needed to achieve it, and recruit the support needed to make it happen, and actually have that supporter base going out there telling people that they're seriously aiming to win it, and left wing grouplets might just surprise themselves. I doubt there's been a better time to make that sort of breakthrough in my lifetime than right now, the level of anger at all 3 parties is astonishing, and extends across a huge swathe of the population. For starters there's a good 10-15% of the vote made up of former left of centre lib dem voters up for grabs, significantly more in areas where they'd previously done well on an anti-tory ticket.

Yes, and we know what we're doing-thank you letters to supporters, regular campaign stalls, and its a priority ward for us so we're canvassing thoroughly. Our candidate is a local bloke who a lot of people know and who's active in the TARA. The main issue is money-our black and white leaflets look a bit amateurish to be honest. But our homemade election posters have stayed up in the ward without being defaced for months which is more than can be said for any other party!
 
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