The Trump presidency

[bimble]

there is a difference between 'befriend' entirely accept someone as they are, and 'befriend' persuade someone of the error of their ways and turn them into an ally.

In case anyone would like to try this irl ... I'd gladly pass on the contact details of the woman I met on Sunday. She seemed perfectly ok until, idiotically, I mentioned trump: From that moment on it was all I could do to just keep my voice calm. She was telling me such crazy shit (there's sharia law all over Europe, nobody can wear miniskirts in London anymore etc). She was not remotely interested in hearing my point of view, as someone who actually lives in that londonistan, just kept saying how happy she is for me that I have miraculously not noticed the hell I live in every day.

 

[Pickman's model]

Have you ever had a face to face conversation with a right-wing conservative American; or been to one of their towns?

There's a wide gap between the theory and the practice of trying to make them see the error of their ways.

Yeh cos all Trump supporters are like that some will change their views and some won't and with luck the Lord will grant you the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Pickman's model]

In case anyone would like to try this irl ... I'd gladly pass on the contact details of the woman I met on Sunday. She seemed perfectly ok until, idiotically, I mentioned trump: From that moment on it was all I could do to just keep my voice calm. She was telling me such crazy shit (there's sharia law all over Europe, nobody can wear miniskirts in London anymore etc). She was not remotely interested in hearing my point of view, as someone who actually lives in that londonistan, just kept saying how happy she is for me that I have miraculously not noticed the hell I live in every day.

I refer you to my previous answer

 

[J Ed]

Have you ever had a face to face conversation with a right-wing conservative American; or been to one of their towns?

There's a wide gap between the theory and the practice of trying to make them see the error of their ways.

Yes and yes, but I don't think that experience gives me any special insight that I wasn't already made aware of my the post-Brexit liberal backlash.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yeh cos all Trump supporters are like that.

Hard to say what they're like; but having some experience meeting and talking with them might lend some insight.

 

[J Ed]

Hard to say what they're like; but having some experience meeting and talking with them might lend some insight.

What insight would that be exactly?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes and yes, but I don't think that experience gives me any special insight that I wasn't already made aware of my the post-Brexit liberal backlash.

You've met some since Brexit?

Also, it's important to keep in mind that the people and politics of Britain and Europe aren't the same as those in the United States.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What insight would that be exactly?

You're disputing the contention that meeting and talking with people might lend some insight into how they think.

 

[J Ed]

You've met some since Brexit?

Yes.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hard to say what they're like; but having some experience meeting and talking with them might lend some insight.

It's not like you have to go to backwoods alabama to find them, from what I understand

 

[J Ed]

I just don't understand what sort of insight you get from speaking with Trump voters in person that you don't get online as well, unless you are initially under the impression that they are two headed monsters or something, in that case you will be shocked that they are in fact human beings rather than literal monsters.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's not like you have to go to backwoods alabama to find them, from what I understand

That's true: they're all over the place. But as you yourself have pointed out, they're more likely to be located outside of New York and California - the states that tend to attract a lot of the tourist visits.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I just don't understand what sort of insight you get from speaking with Trump voters in person that you don't get online as well,.

Do you mean speaking with them online; or reading about them online?

 

[Pickman's model]

That's true: they're all over the place. But as you yourself have pointed out, they're more likely to be located outside of New York and California - the states that tend to attract a lot of the tourist visits.

Yeh. Nonetheless it shouldn't be hard for our American posters to have a chat to the less rabid Trump voters in their communities and help them see why their support last November was a mistake

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yeh. Nonetheless it shouldn't be hard for our American posters to have a chat to the less rabid Trump voters in their communities and help them see why their support last November was a mistake

This has been discussed already on the other thread. There is a wide gap between the theory, and the practice of doing that.

I and other NA posters have already tried to explain to you the results of our having made these attempts with Trump supporters.

 

[J Ed]

Do you mean speaking with them online; or reading about them online?

both

 

[CrabbedOne]

When he started attacking the intelligence agencies I thought that I would not do that unless I were pure as the driven snow, because any skeletons they will know about. Trump is obviously a long way from being pure as the driven snow, which does suggest that he's really quite impressively stupid. Almost his first act in the Whitehouse was to start attacking the people who had all the dirt on him. Frankly I think if it wasn't this Russian stuff it would be something else. His days are numbered unless he can make friends with the intelligence agencies again, pronto. Hopefully he's too dim to see that.

You do realise Trumpski can just sack them or have any awkward types sent to wile away their days at a desk in the basement waitinghto be pensioned off. US intelligence agencies are regular punch bags for Presidents and Congress. The Church enquires practically gutted the CIA for instance.

Trump appears to be set on marginalising State and all the associated Beltway think tanks. Much of Foggy Bottom is currently idle. That's what Presidential power looks like. If he was less ponderous with his appointments and firings he'd have far greater control over government than he has now.

It's the very powerful Pentagon that usually gives Presidents gyp. The "simple soldiers" often ran rings round Obama and JFK for instance. Obama fired a few of them. It's the Generals Trump appears to defer to at least so far.

Congress can bugger up a lot of his plans as they hold the purse strings and he stupidly pissed off the GOP establishment.

He can't control the liberal inclined US press but the alternative of creating an alternative wingnut squawk box to drown it any criticism seems to work pretty well.

 

[J Ed]

This has been discussed already on the other thread. There is a wide gap between the theory, and the practice of doing that.

I and other NA posters have already tried to explain to you the results of our having made these attempts with Trump supporters.

If the way you act online is any indication of how you act in person then I'm not surprised you were given a hostile reception

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You may consider the limited communication afforded by the internet to be equivalent to communicating with others in person; I don't.

 

[Wilf]

This has been discussed already on the other thread. There is a wide gap between the theory, and the practice of doing that.

I and other NA posters have already tried to explain to you the results of our having made these attempts with Trump supporters.

So where do you (or the Dems) go next? CRI seems to think there's a new coalition to be built, but is explicit that those who voted trump are to be ignored. Doesn't sound very realistic to me.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If the way you act online is any indication of how you act in person then I'm not surprised you were given a hostile reception

The fact that you believe that your conception of what I'm like that is in any way reflective of who I am, is ample proof of the insufficiency of internet communication.

 

[J Ed]

You may consider the limited communication afforded by the internet to be equivalent to communicating with others in person; I don't.

I didn't say that though, did I? I said that I gained no insight by speaking, in person, to Trump supporters in an area that voted Trump (and before that Obama) that I didn't already have through online communication.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I didn't say that though, did I? I said that I gained no insight by speaking, in person, to Trump supporters in an area that voted Trump (and before that Obama) that I didn't already have through online communication.

Or possibly confirmation bias is taking place.

 

[bimble]

I reckon, or willfully hope, that even that woman I mentioned meeting (fervent islamophobe) has plenty of potential to be disappointed by trump. She kept saying 'give him a chance'. Maybe by the time the next election comes around she will feel that he let her down and will be open to alternatives. I think that's very possible.

 

[J Ed]

Or possibly confirmation bias is taking place.

Yeah, which is something that particularly afflicts people who think differently from you I am sure.

 

[Pickman's model]

This has been discussed already on the other thread. There is a wide gap between the theory, and the practice of doing that.

I and other NA posters have already tried to explain to you the results of our having made these attempts with Trump supporters.

Yeh well if you went in and made them feel defensive I'm not surprised.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yeah, which is something that particularly afflicts people who think differently from you I am sure.

I have no idea; but that doesn't rule out the possibility that it's taking place in your case.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

if

Your assumptions aren't necessarily reflective of what actually happened.

 

[J Ed]

One insight that did really strike me, something that I wasn't aware of before, is just how much worse the condescension is from US liberals than it is from their liberal counterparts in Britain and that is really saying something. The way in which it is directed into this incredible level of class animosity is staggering.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

One insight that did really strike me, something that I wasn't aware of before, is just how much worse the condescension is from US liberals than it is from their liberal counterparts in Britain and that is really saying something. .

Are you claiming that your brief visit or visits to the US and communication with a few Americans, has given you an equivalent insight into US liberals, as you have of liberals in the country you live in?