The Trump presidency

[Wilf]

my god are we really doing this again.

But, but... it's my turn to do it this time, I haven't had a go!

 

[CRI]

Yep, and 'naw, they can go hang' doesn't sound like a particularly effective way to make friends and influence people.

What is the point of "making friends" with Trump supporters? I'm not talking those who voted for him and now have "buyers regret." They'll figure out how to not vote for the GOP next time around without a bouquet and chocolates from the DNC. What part of "Trump supporters like what Trump and the GOP are doing and Hell will freeze over before they vote Democrat," are people struggling to understand?

Are people really saying that the Democrats should be acquiescing to people who are abundantly clear about their homophobic, anti-abortion, pro gun, pro Christian, anti-immigrant, anti-environmental protection, etc. beliefs, just because they are or have been "blue collar?" That's pish.

What about the blue collar workers who know Trump and the GOP are greed-driven, heartless kleptocrats who shit on poor people every chance they get, so they didn't vote for them? Don't they count for anything?

 

[Wilf]

What is the point of "making friends" with Trump supporters? I'm not talking those who voted for him and now have "buyers regret." They'll figure out how to not vote for the GOP next time around without a bouquet and chocolates from the DNC. What part of "Trump supporters like what Trump and the GOP are doing and Hell will freeze over before they vote Democrat," are people struggling to understand?

Are people really saying that the Democrats should be acquiescing to people who are abundantly clear about their homophobic, anti-abortion, pro gun, pro Christian, anti-immigrant, anti-environmental protection, etc. beliefs, just because they are or have been "blue collar?" That's pish.

What about the blue collar workers who know Trump and the GOP are greed-driven, heartless kleptocrats who shit on poor people every chance they get, so they didn't vote for them? Don't they count for anything?

Why do you think I (and others) are saying that - the bolded bit?

 

[Pickman's model]

What is the point of "making friends" with Trump supporters? I'm not talking those who voted for him and now have "buyers regret." They'll figure out how to not vote for the GOP next time around without a bouquet and chocolates from the DNC. What part of "Trump supporters like what Trump and the GOP are doing and Hell will freeze over before they vote Democrat," are people struggling to understand?

Are people really saying that the Democrats should be acquiescing to people who are abundantly clear about their homophobic, anti-abortion, pro gun, pro Christian, anti-immigrant, anti-environmental protection, etc. beliefs, just because they are or have been "blue collar?" That's pish.

What about the blue collar workers who know Trump and the GOP are greed-driven, heartless kleptocrats who shit on poor people every chance they get, so they didn't vote for them? Don't they count for anything?

The best way to destroy an enemy is to turn them into a friend.

 

[belboid]

What is the point of "making friends" with Trump supporters? I'm not talking those who voted for him and now have "buyers regret." They'll figure out how to not vote for the GOP next time around without a bouquet and chocolates from the DNC. What part of "Trump supporters like what Trump and the GOP are doing and Hell will freeze over before they vote Democrat," are people struggling to understand?

Are people really saying that the Democrats should be acquiescing to people who are abundantly clear about their homophobic, anti-abortion, pro gun, pro Christian, anti-immigrant, anti-environmental protection, etc. beliefs, just because they are or have been "blue collar?" That's pish.

What about the blue collar workers who know Trump and the GOP are greed-driven, heartless kleptocrats who shit on poor people every chance they get, so they didn't vote for them? Don't they count for anything?

Even for a dishonest imbecile this is a truly awful, confused and nonsensical post.

Thank fuck you are over here and can't help Trump more with your gibberish

 

[camouflage]

What is the point of "making friends" with Trump supporters? I'm not talking those who voted for him and now have "buyers regret." They'll figure out how to not vote for the GOP next time around without a bouquet and chocolates from the DNC. What part of "Trump supporters like what Trump and the GOP are doing and Hell will freeze over before they vote Democrat," are people struggling to understand?

Are people really saying that the Democrats should be acquiescing to people who are abundantly clear about their homophobic, anti-abortion, pro gun, pro Christian, anti-immigrant, anti-environmental protection, etc. beliefs, just because they are or have been "blue collar?" That's pish.

What about the blue collar workers who know Trump and the GOP are greed-driven, heartless kleptocrats who shit on poor people every chance they get, so they didn't vote for them? Don't they count for anything?

Point of clarification... are we talking one-party state here, as the preferred outcome? If I were a US citizen I'd have voted Greens... actually if I were a US citizen I'd be a completely different person so who knows. But if it's not ok for normal people to vote GOP even to keep the Dems honest then wouldn't that effectively make the US a one-party state?

 

[CRI]

Why do you think I (and others) are saying that - the bolded bit?

The best way to destroy an enemy is to turn them into a friend.

Let's turn this around then. How do you propose the Democratic party "makes friends with" and "wins over" Trump supporters, given they've made their agreement with his policies pretty damned clear.

Do you think tea and biscuits will do it?

 

[CRI]

Point of clarification... are we talking one-party state here, as the preferred outcome? If I were a US citizen I'd have voted Greens... actually if I were a US citizen I'd be a completely different person so who knows. But if it's not ok for normal people to vote GOP even to keep the Dems honest then wouldn't that effectively make the US a one-party state?

Like it or not, the US has a two party system, and third parties haven't had a look in for yonks, except in some state and local races. I genuinely can't imagine that changing much, apart from if the gerrymandering efforts going through at the moment succeed, making it closer to a genuine one-party state, where only the GOP have any chance of gaining a majority.

 

[coley]

Let's turn this around then. How do you propose the Democratic party "makes friends with" and "wins over" Trump supporters, given they've made their agreement with his policies pretty damned clear.

Do you think tea and biscuits will do it?

Looking at the dyed in the wool Trump supporters and their various stances, there ain't a cat in hells chance of turning them away from TTT
However those who voted him in as 'protest' should be persuadable, and those who just stayed put, but the Dems have got to up their game, big time.
Just relying on TTT being a complete arsehole wont do it alone.

 

[camouflage]

Like it or not, the US has a two party system, and third parties haven't had a look in for yonks, except in some state and local races. I genuinely can't imagine that changing much, apart from if the gerrymandering efforts going through at the moment succeed, making it closer to a genuine one-party state, where only the GOP have any chance of gaining a majority.

I get the impression you think the US should be a one-party state under the Dems, and anyone who votes GOP is a racist/sexist enemy of humanity.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But not where it mattered

DC's article was about an alleged failure of the Democratic party to live up to its core beliefs - not about a failure by the party to strategize in terms of which state to direct resources toward, etc.

The fact that more people voted Democrat, tends to negate an argument that Trump won because people rejected the Democratic party because the party had abandoned those core beliefs.

The Democratic failure was a failure of strategy; i.e. getting more votes out in key states.

 

[CRI]

I get the impression you think the US should be a one-party state under the Dems, and anyone who votes GOP is a racist/sexist enemy of humanity.

I have no idea what gives you that impression. It's false.

 

[CRI]

Like it or not, the US has a two party system, and third parties haven't had a look in for yonks, except in some state and local races. I genuinely can't imagine that changing much, apart from if the gerrymandering efforts going through at the moment succeed, making it closer to a genuine one-party state, where only the GOP have any chance of gaining a majority.

Another question . . .

Why are those who are insisting the only way forward is to "listen to" and "win over" blue collar Trump supporters so unconcerned about reaching out to the people who didn't vote, or who were unable to due to voter suppression? For that matter, why so little concern about voter suppression and gerrymandering?

 

[Wilf]

DC's article was about an alleged failure of the Democratic party to live up to its core beliefs - not about a failure by the party to strategize in terms of which state to direct resources toward, etc.

The fact that more people voted Democrat, tends to negate an argument that Trump won because people rejected the Democratic party because the party had abandoned those core beliefs.

The Democratic failure was a failure of strategy; i.e. getting more votes out in key states.

The only way someone like Donald Trump should have been able to become president is inside the pages of a political satire or dystopian science fiction novel. That he's done so in the real world suggests the failure of the democrats is greater than you allow.

 

[CRI]

DC's article was about an alleged failure of the Democratic party to live up to its core beliefs - not about a failure by the party to strategize in terms of which state to direct resources toward, etc.

The fact that more people voted Democrat, tends to negate an argument that Trump won because people rejected the Democratic party because the party had abandoned those core beliefs.

The Democratic failure was a failure of strategy; i.e. getting more votes out in key states.

This is the issue. The whole, "we gotta win over those suffering blue collar Trump supporters," is a red herring.

 

[J Ed]

Even for a dishonest imbecile this is a truly awful, confused and nonsensical post.

Thank fuck you are over here and can't help Trump more with your gibberish

Plenty out there like CRI though.

 

[J Ed]

This is the issue. The whole, "we gotta win over those suffering blue collar Trump supporters," is a red herring.

Perhaps the Dems could try blocking or ignoring voters in most states

 

[coley]

The best way to destroy an enemy is to turn them into a friend.

In fairness, how many decent people would want to befriend a genuine Trump supporter?

 

[Wilf]

This is the issue. The whole, "we gotta win over those suffering blue collar Trump supporters," is a red herring.

What happens if you ignore those voters? What happens if you say 'oh well, the Dems are still perfectly positioned, it's just that there are too many racists out there. If we get all the non-racists to vote, things will be fine'? What follow? Does that work as a strategy?

edit: oh, darn golly gosh, we really are doing this again.

 

[coley]

I get the impression you think the US should be a one-party state under the Dems, and anyone who votes GOP is a racist/sexist enemy of humanity.

You can't avoid the fact, that your descriptions sums many of them to a 'T'

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The best way to destroy an enemy is to turn them into a friend.

Someone should tell that to those Trump supporters shooting South Asians, mistaking them for Muslims.

 

[CRI]

The only way someone like Donald Trump should have been able to become president is inside the pages of a political satire or dystopian science fiction novel. That he's done so in the real world suggests the failure of the democrats is greater than you allow.

Uh no.

Maybe Trump seemed a wild card during the primaries, but once he took the nomination, the GOP machine backed him. They were helped by voter suppression, selective negative leaks about the Democratic party candidate and the bizarre announcement from the FBI head about investigating the Democrat candidate at a crucial point in the election. Despite all this, Trump lost the popular vote by 3m.

But somehow it's all the Democrats fault that people who liked Trumps policies voted for Trump.

 

[belboid]

DC's article was about an alleged failure of the Democratic party to live up to its core beliefs - not about a failure by the party to strategize in terms of which state to direct resources toward, etc.

The fact that more people voted Democrat, tends to negate an argument that Trump won because people rejected the Democratic party because the party had abandoned those core beliefs.

The Democratic failure was a failure of strategy; i.e. getting more votes out in key states.

And that utter misunderstanding of everything is why they'll probably be doomed to eight years of trump. The inability to learn from your mistakes is tragic.

you don't even have a strategy for increasing the vote in the key states. At least not one that won't push up the rights vote as well.

 

[belboid]

In fairness, how many decent people would want to befriend a genuine Trump supporter?

Their neighbours? Workmates? Family? People who don't live in a fucking bubble

 

[Wilf]

Uh no.

Maybe Trump seemed a wild card during the primaries, but once he took the nomination, the GOP machine backed him. They were helped by voter suppression, selective negative leaks about the Democratic party candidate and the bizarre announcement from the FBI head about investigating the Democrat candidate at a crucial point in the election. Despite all this, Trump lost the popular vote by 3m.

But somehow it's all the Democrats fault that people who liked Trumps policies voted for Trump.

I very much admire your commitment to avoiding elephants in the room.

Well, if you don't want to see the socio-economic background to the election, don't want to think about whether the Dems are still connected to the working class, if you want about it entirely in terms of events.... well, what about trump admitting to carrying out sexual assaults in the campaign, what about the women coming out and saying he assaulted them - along with any number of bizarre statements coming from his actual gob. Doesn't the fact that he still won suggest there might just be something going on with the Democrats and the way they are regarded?

 

[CRI]

You can't avoid the fact, that your descriptions sums many of them to a 'T'

I'd like to see the GOP returning to a centre right position and ditching the God-bothering bullshit which underpins most of their bigoted policies. I'd like to see the Democrats being true to their core supporters and moving from the centre towards the left.

I can't imagine in my lifetime that a 3rd party will every carry much weight nationally in the US. I'd like to see third parties being more visible in state and local races though and maybe over time the situation nationally could change.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

you don't even have a strategy for increasing the vote in the key states.

I'm a Canadian; I don't need a strategy for increasing the votes in US states.

 

[coley]

Perhaps the Dems could try blocking or ignoring voters in most states

Their neighbours? Workmates? Family? People who don't live in a fucking bubble

Sorry kidda, but anybody enthusing about stuff that floats the average Trump supporters vote, I wouldn't want in my "bubble"

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

People who don't live in a fucking bubble

Trump supporters live in the Fox News bubble. Or the Breitbart bubble.

 

[coley]

I very much admire your commitment to avoiding elephants in the room.

Well, if you don't want to see the socio-economic background to the election, don't want to think about whether the Dems are still connected to the working class, if you want about it entirely in terms of events.... well, what about trump admitting to carrying out sexual assaults in the campaign, what about the women coming out and saying he assaulted them - along with any number of bizarre statements coming from his actual gob. Doesn't the fact that he still won suggest there might just be something going on with the Democrats and the way they are regarded?

Fair point, but,
"Doesn't the fact that he still won suggest there might just be something going on with the Democrats and the way they are regarded?"
Also has a lot to do with the briefart press winning the media war and the way they demonised the Clintons.