"Young professionals" to infest flats above Iceland

[editor]

I'll just keep plugging along, paying the rent ... secure in the knowledge that if one day I do save enough to buy a house in my home town I'll have some professional smartarse and self-appointed Brixtonite accusing me of being a yuppie for having the temerity to work and want some security...

I'll have the "YUPPIE INFESTING SCUM OUT NOW!" banner ready for the day you move in. You'll be shunned in the Albert from the minute you collect your keys and be expected to start frequenting style bahs and Atlantic666 because we don't want your yuppie-homeowning type not fitting the stereotype.

 

[editor]

1. Where do you get "hellbent on despoiling the neighbourhood"?

In the (criminal) complete absence of any prospect of the building being used for social/council housing, would you rather the buildings remained empty and quietly rotted away?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

You should get a better job, or find another way of earning more money, rather than just whinging about how you can't afford stuff. What do you want, that some "committee of proper prices" tell people what they can buy and sell things for?

I missed this. Jesus. How insufferably arrogant and vile. Have you any idea how hard I've struggled just to be where I am? Or is it axiomatic that I must be some deadbeat because I'm not in a high-paid job?

I tell you, it's not the incomes of the well-off that causes resentment. It's their thoroughgoing arrogance towards those less well-off than themselves. "I'm better paid than you. So I'm better than you. And I can lecture you about it."

I felt physically ill on reading that post. I'm not joking. "Whinging". Dear Fucking God.

why does this always seem to translate into resentment of anyone who does buy their own place?

..oh, and their dishonesty. Because, of course, nobody has said this. At all. At any point.

 

[Juice Terry]

Just remembered an anecdote relevant to this debate. Was talking to my 90 year old gran a while back, she grew up in South London. I mentioned Loughborough Junction and how the area was in a run down state and she remembered how posh it was when she was a girl and how her family could never afford to buy a house somewhere so expensive.

Just goes to show how these things go in cycles.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

In the (criminal) complete absence of any prospect of the building being used for social/council housing, would you rather the buildings remained empty and quietly rotted away?

Relevance to point quoted?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Just remembered an anecdote relevant to this debate. Was talking to my 90 year old gran a while back, she grew up in South London. I mentioned Loughborough Junction and how the area was in a run down state and she remembered how posh it was when she was a girl and how her family could never afford to buy a house somewhere so expensive.

Just goes to show how these things go in cycles.

Sort of, and it's a point that's often made about Brixton. Thing is, you can't even afford to buy in the run-down areas now. Or anywhere else.

 

[chegrimandi]

I'll have the "YUPPIE INFESTING SCUM OUT NOW!" banner ready for the day you move in. You'll be shunned in the Albert from the minute you collect your keys and be expected to start frequenting style bahs and Atlantic666 because we don't want your yuppie-homeowning type not fitting the stereotype.

err is there any chance you can stop exaggerating what people are saying for the purposes of furthering your point....it doesn't really add strength to your case.

I know of only one person that has bought a property in Brixton in the last year. She is very posh public school, trust-fund person. Didn't work for 12 months and then bought a house. She fits the bill of yuppie perfectly. And I guarantee she'll be out in two years after collecting nice tidy profit...

what the fuck is wrong with people disliking and castigating this obvious and undeniable phenomenon....


and ed. I can remember specifically a thread you started not so long ago about the increasing blandness of the brixton high street...I think it was the Vodafone shop that took the brunt of your ire that day. If you don't think these two things are interconnected you're a bit mad!

 

[tarannau]

This strikes me as wrong and unfair on several counts.

1. Where do you get "hellbent on despoiling the neighbourhood"?
2. Do you really believe that 'they're just likely to be average working people, trying to get on the property ladder in some form of other'? Do you think the developers think that?
3. Do you ever think that if current trends continue you will ever save enough to buy a house in your home town? Is it not self-evident that this is becomingnharder and harder, and will continue to do so unless action is taken to prevent it, action which will be predicated on the assumption that present trends are undesirable? Do you not see then that just saying "it's all right" not only does not help, it actively makes things worse?
4. Can you really not distinguish between what the critics are actually saying about certain trends and some sort of straw-man resentment of all home ownership? If not, why not?
5. Have you ever read The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists?

1) Maybe it's the happy sounding mentions of yuppies 'infesting' the neigbourhood (welcome back Anna Key, I mean OldSlapper)that makes me feel that these newcomers are seen as having a negative impact.
2) Yes, I do think they're likely to be average working people. If you had a huge amount of money would you choose to live above a piss-streaked down-at-heel supermarket?
3) To be honest, I may well never save anough for a deposit - depressingly I may have to hope a relative pops their clogs and I inherit just enough to get on the ladder, the same as many others. But this issue is not confined to Brixton, nor best dealt with divisive and childish ideas about yuppies from the same old moaning-faces. There needs to be a more productive discussion.
4) Yes I can, but I'm not the one tarring everyone with predetermined notions of yuppiedom and what motivates homebuyers.
5) Yes

 

[noodles]

..oh, and their dishonesty. Because, of course, nobody has said this. At all. At any point.

Familiar?

I resent them, I resent the policy, I resent the market and I resent all the fucking whining that takes place on their behalf when people like me are less than fucking chuffed about it.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

1) Maybe it's the happy sounding mentions of yuppies 'infesting' the neigbourhood (welcome back Anna Key, I mean OldSlapper)that makes me feel that these newcomers are seen as having a negative impact.
2) Yes, I do think they're likely to be average working people. If you had a huge amount of money would you choose to live above a piss-streaked down-at-heel supermarket?
3) To be honest, I may well never save anough for a deposit - depressingly I may have to hope a relative pops their clogs and I inherit just enough to get on the ladder, the same as many others. But this issue is not confined to Brixton, nor best dealt with divisive and childish ideas about yuppies from the same old moaning-faces. There needs to be a more productive discussion.
4) Yes I can, but I'm not the one tarring everyone with predetermined notions of yuppiedom and what motivates homebuyers.
5) Yes

1. A fair point given the language, but is there not reason to think that demographically they do change the area, in a way that is to some people's disadvantage?
2. In fact young professionals often do precisely that. That's how areas get gentrified. And other people are, I think, less likely to buy one-bedroom flats (many people rent, for instance, before getting aplace with a partner). My guess is, you're wrong on this.
3. There does indeed need to be a more productive discussion, but that can't be had on the basis of either (a) persistent caricature and distortion of the arguments against gentrification or (b) the position (not necessarily yours) that "this is happening, so live with it". Which would, by definition, render any discussion purposeless in the first place.
4. I think you are caricaturing here.
5. Sometimes I feel like Owen.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Familiar?

I resent them, I resent the policy, I resent the market and I resent all the fucking whining that takes place on their behalf when people like me are less than fucking chuffed about it.

Fanmiliar?

why does this always seem to translate into resentment of anyone who does buy their own place?

I have highlighted the important bit for your attention.

 

[noodles]

Fanmiliar? I have highlighted the important bit for your attention.

You said that in a response to the editor's post:

So you resent the people buying flats because the housing market is 'mad'?

Don't you think your anger might be a little misplaced?

Er, so is it just people buying flats above Iceland that you have a problem with? Or in Brixton generally? Or "people buying flats"? At what price boundary does a buyer cease to become an "infesting yuppie"?

 

[OldSlapper]

pile of repetitive tripe... foaming hard-left hate of anyone daring to get off their bottom... usual suspects... frenzied allegations of bullying... sad and circular... fuck off... manifest hate...

worthwhile points about the evils of the housing market are coupled with offensive labelling and name calling. It degrades the argument.

Indeed.

Hendo. You're gobbling like a turkey. Calm down mate. It's only a bulletin board!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I don't know. Ask somebody who has used the phrase. I have not.

 

[editor]

Relevance to point quoted?

It would be nice - for a change - if you could just answer the question.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I don't do interrogations. I do discussions. In these, points ideally flow from previous points made.

 

[robotsimon]

I think my situation may be closer to the truth of young, professional people buying one-bedroom flats in and around Brixton than the image of hugely-salaried trust-funders. I am not saying those people do not exist but would quetion just how many of them there are.

My other-half and I moved to London (Bethnal Green) about 7 1/2 years ago. We rented a private flat in BG for 2 years with a friend then moved to Balham (because a lot of our friends had moved to that area, no other reason). We have been renting a private one-bedroomed flat in Balham for the last 5 1/2 years.

During this past 7 1/2 years we have spent over £63,000 in rent. We both felt that this was unsustainable and due to saving on our part and the generosity of my g/f's parents, we got a deposit together of £16,000. We have almost bought a one-bedroom, ex-council flat in Camberwell for £153,000. Our mortage repayments will be slightly more than our current rent.

I work for a medical charity and my g/f is a journalist. Our joint income is £47,000 and we are both 30 years old. When we moved to London, our joint income was about £32,000.

I appreciate that we are in an infinitely better housing position than many people but we are certainly not yuppies. We are moving to Camberwell because a) we can afford it and b) because we like it not because it is edgy, cool, 'vibrant' or anything else.

I fully undertand people's resentment at sky-high property prices. It is only within the last year, and with the help of family, that we could contemplate buying anywhere. But once we were able, it seemed like the sensible thing to do.

 

[noodles]

I don't know. Ask somebody who has used the phrase. I have not.

Ok I'll try again, to frame it to cater for your pedantic nature:

When do YOU cease resenting buyers of flats?

Is it just people buying flats above Iceland that you have a problem with? Or in Brixton generally?

 

[poster342002]

You should get a better job, or find another way of earning more money, rather than just whinging about how you can't afford stuff.

Oh, dear. It's the "let them eat cake" argument.

Don't like being poor? Well, be rich then instead.

I mean - why hasn't everyone thought of just getting a high-paid job out of thin air as an answer to their poverty?

 

[OldSlapper]

Oh, dear. It's the "let them eat cake" argument.

Don't like being poor? Well, be rich then instead.

I mean - why hasn't everyone thought of just getting a high-paid job out of thin air as an answer to their poverty?

Isn't Giles a property developer?

 

[editor]

I know of only one person that has bought a property in Brixton in the last year. She is very posh public school, trust-fund person. Didn't work for 12 months and then bought a house. She fits the bill of yuppie perfectly. And I guarantee she'll be out in two years after collecting nice tidy profit...

what the fuck is wrong with people disliking and castigating this obvious and undeniable phenomenon..

But we're not talking about her, are we? Or are you suggesting that everyone who moves in to these "pokey" flats above Iceland are all from "posh public schools" with "trust funds"?

But if there were armies of these people marching into Brixton, then I would share your outrage - but I'm not convinced that is the case. The properties haven't even been converted yet! If they turn out to be as 'pokey' as some have suggested, I doubt if people like your trust fund yuppie pal will be moving in.

and ed. I can remember specifically a thread you started not so long ago about the increasing blandness of the brixton high street...I think it was the Vodafone shop that took the brunt of your ire that day. If you don't think these two things are interconnected you're a bit mad!

Hold on. Since when was a Vodaphone shop a sign of yuppification?

Do you think it's only yuppies who buy mobiles or something?!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I fully undertand people's resentment at sky-high property prices. It is only within the last year, and with the help of family, that we could contemplate buying anywhere. But once we were able, it seemed like the sensible thing to do.

I quite agree - give or take "sensible", which I hope won't prove a misplaced adjective if mortgage rates or prices change dramatically. (When I bought, years ago, it was absolutely at the bottom of the market.) I think the "help from family" bit is enormously significant. Just about everybody I know who has bought recently has had enormous assistance from their family, either in terms of despoit or part-buying or whatever. Without it, I can't imagine how anybody can buy anything.

 

[editor]

I don't do interrogations. I do discussions. In these, points ideally flow from previous points made.

Well, let me ask you again.

In the (criminal) complete absence of any prospect of the building being used for social/council housing, would you rather the buildings remained empty and quietly rotted away?

 

[editor]

Indeed.

Hendo. You're gobbling like a turkey. Calm down mate. It's only a bulletin board!

Ah! More abuse! And this time with a large, FAQ-busting image.

Are you the poster previously known as Anna Key?

YES/NO?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Well, let me ask you again.

In the (criminal) complete absence of any prospect of the building being used for social/council housing, would you rather the buildings remained empty and quietly rotted away?

And let me once again, if I may, fail to see relevance.

Ok I'll try again, to frame it to cater for your pedantic nature

I tend to think of it as "not wishing to have my position completely misstated for ill-motivated reasons".

 

[poster342002]

I don't see how making some little flats in a long-unused empty space over a shop and then selling them to whoever, actually causes anyone to be "driven out".

When those little flats go for absurd amounts of money - unreachable sums to the average worker who has trouble even finding somehwere affordable to RENT... there's your answer.

 

[editor]

And let me once again, if I may, fail to see relevance.
I tend to think of it as "not wishing to have my position completely misstated for ill-motivated reasons".

Just answer the question, pretty please. It's entirely relevant to the debate.

So for the third time of asking: In the (criminal) complete absence of any prospect of the building being used for social/council housing, would you rather the buildings remained empty and quietly rotted away?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Just answer the question, pretty please. It's entirely relevant to the debate.

I consider it otherwise.

 

[poster342002]

In the (criminal) complete absence of any prospect of the building being used for social/council housing, would you rather the buildings remained empty and quietly rotted away?

I personally would rather they were rented out at affordable rents. By that, I mean affordable to people on under £20k per year salaries - people who seem to be largely forgotten about and considered irrelevant by society.

 

[chegrimandi]

We both felt that this was unsustainable and due to saving on our part and the generosity of my g/f's parents, we got a deposit together of £16,000. We have almost bought a one-bedroom, ex-council flat in Camberwell for £153,000. Our mortage repayments will be slightly more than our current rent.

I work for a medical charity and my g/f is a journalist. Our joint income is £47,000 and we are both 30 years old. When we moved to London, our joint income was about £32,000.

jesus you sound exactly the same as my mates that have just bought an identically priced property in Camberwell together!! seriously down to the professions, almost and stuff scary....


I'm fairly confident your first name isn't *** though...