Workers Power have split

[Idris2002]

Cancelled on the orders of Thatcher in 1986. Eight episodes that shook the world.

Really? I remember the pilot - it was probably cancelled on the grounds that it wasn't very good.

 

[chilango]

Just a couple of things on this.
Class War don't actually exist as an organistion anymore iirc. They've tried restarting a few times but I wouldn't say they they deserve to be on this.

I know, but they're still, imo, a distinct tendency with quite a bit of brand identity.

For IWW, although I understand why you put them on here, they are an officially registered union that has members of L&S, AFed, Solfed, Alliance for Workers Liberty, Green Party and Labour Party (The ones I encountered from the last 3 were paper members though and there maybe some from the Commune as I've seen stuff about IWW in there before).

Yeah. I was unsure about adding the IWW, but again, they are the organisational form of a distinct tendency, albeit one with a fair bit of cross over.

Left List/Left Alternative aren't around anymore since TUSC has come along afaik. So maybe replace them with TUSC.

Good point.

What are the difference between the numerous WRP and SPGB groups?

Dunno really to be honest.

International Maoist Group? Really? I thought the Maoist groups died out in the 80s.

The MIM and the RIM are both US based groups really, but you (very) occasionally see their papers in the UK. Quite a collectors item for afficionados!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Just a couple of things on this.

Class War don't actually exist as an organistion anymore iirc. They've tried restarting a few times but I wouldn't say they they deserve to be on this.

For IWW, although I understand why you put them on here, they are an officially registered union that has members of L&S, AFed, Solfed, Alliance for Workers Liberty, Green Party and Labour Party (The ones I encountered from the last 3 were paper members though and there maybe some from the Commune as I've seen stuff about IWW in there before).

Left List/Left Alternative aren't around anymore since TUSC has come along afaik. So maybe replace them with TUSC.

What are the difference between the numerous WRP and SPGB groups?

International Maoist Group? Really? I thought the Maoist groups died out in the 80s.

Good work Chilango - just a few points;

The Red Party mostly went into Classwar and the commune.

The Economic and Philosophical Review is actually the International Leninist workers Party and may be defunct since Royston Vasey died

 

[articul8]

What do you mean how so? By siding with smaller states in their struggles with larger states rather than with the (international) w/c against both/all states. I'm not going to bother arguing if this is the correct thing to do (it's not), but it sure as hell isn't revolutionary internationalism. You're thinking of the belief in the necessity of international revolution - different thing.

That's a tendentious account - Leninists wouldn't see any contradiction between revolutionary internationalism and the right to national self-determination.

 

[articul8]

may be defunct since Royston Vasey died

Chubby Brown? League of Gentlemen?

 

[butchersapron]

That's a tendentious account - Leninists wouldn't see any contradiction between revolutionary internationalism and the right to national self-determination.

You've - for the second time - confused two entirely different arguments and debates. Revolutionary internationalism is not the debate about the right to self-determination. And these are both different from the necessity for international revolution.

 

[chilango]

Good work Chilango - just a few points;

The Red Party mostly went into Classwar and the commune.

The Economic and Philosophical Review is actually the International Leninist workers Party and may be defunct since Royston Vasey died

Somebody is still producing the EPSR - the latest issue is from this February.

I'll delete the Red Party.

 

[The39thStep]

There was a poster in WP on here who went on some demonstration and got arrested for possession of E's. I think their general line was take drugs but remember you have a paper sale in the morning at the Hands off Iran meeting and that should come first.

Memories are flooding back now

It's not sarcastic its a fact . RedHippy, one of your ex members went on the world wide web asking for support beacuse he had got arrested on some political action and in his drug addled state forgot he a had a tab of E on him. A fact which somewhat undermined his claim to political martyrdom.

Never saw James Connoly be arrested for drunk and disorderly or for being in an opium den.

 

[The39thStep]

Exclusive correspondence that shows how the CPGB advised the external faction of Workers Power

On 13/03/07, office@cpgb.org.uk <office@cpgb.org.uk> wrote:
Johnny

Thanks for your letter. I have passed it on to the Weekly Worker editor and
hopefully it will feature in the next issue of the paper.

A small point. You should think a little more dynamically than your current
set of perspectives. Being an external faction of the miniscule and -
frankly - increasingly eccentric Revo/Workers Power sect is a waste of your
time. Then, why set up an 'independent' revolutionary youth group? What
distinctive politics would justify the creation of yet another groulet on
the left - this proliferation of tiny, utterly ineffective groups
discredits the Marxist in the eyes of advanced workers. Quite rightly, too.
In what way - other than organisationally - would it be 'independent'?

Whatevr path you choose at the end of the day, I wish you well and your
comrades well.

With communist greetings

Mark Fischer

Dear Mark;

Thank you for your reply and advice which is most welcome. I too have had some doubts about where next as this has been a demoralising affair and has brought the worst out of some of the ex comrades in the '5th International'.You are right aboyut describing them as 'increasing;ly eccentric' .You can imagine our surpise and dismay that we recieved news of our expulsion and banning by text message. Over the next weeks we will be discusiing which way forward and I was encouraged to read in your paper about the Sheffield Communist students .

I am sure that there are quite a few youth out there who like us feel betrayed and hurt by our experience with the so called 'revolutionary' left following radicalisation against the war. Do you feel that conference is a good idea later in the year?​

Johnny​

A conference can be a good idea for a new organisation providing sufficient
work of clarification has been undertaken beforehand. Of course, you can
never tell. Lenin and the Russian party expended huge energy in theoretical
work prior to the 1903 congress - only to split when it rolled around.

So, personally, I would not rush to try and commit to a full conference
just yet. You need to prepare it and get your ideas straight. Some thought
and education may be the order of the day, in other words. Obviously, up to
you and keep us informed one way or another. I'm sure Communist Students
would attend.

I have put you on the mailing list to recieve our e-bulletin Notes for
Action, by the way. Just to keep you up to speed with the stuff we are up
to.

And I meant to ask - what part of the country are you are your comrades
active in?


With communist greetings

Mark Fischer

 

[articul8]

Revolutionary internationalism is not the debate about the right to self-determination.

Is a revolutionary nationalism a) possible, and b) automatically contrary to revolutionary internationalism?

 

[belboid]

Socialist Organiser

Changed their name to the already listed AWL

Solidarity

Long since kaput. The CWO are the only Bordigaists now, I think

 

[frogwoman]

isn't green anarchist more like a fash entryist group to anarchism rather than anarchists themselves, with the involvement of troy southgate etc?

there was some guy on revleft who was both a trot and a fascist, he had convinced himself that trotskyism and socialism was the best way to secure the future for the white race or some bullshit

 

[Jean-Luc]

What are the difference between the numerous WRP and SPGB groups?

Don't know about WRP but here's about the SPGB.

 

[butchersapron]

Changed their name to the already listed AWL

Long since kaput. The CWO are the only Bordigaists now, I think

I think he means the union group/mag solidarity (not the BNP one) and not the long dead non-bordiguist Solidarity. The CWO are similarly also non-bordiguists.

 

[frogwoman]

Over time, the group veered towards a fundamentalist position whereby the Party’s historic distinction between opposing all reformism (the political advocacy of reform measures designed to win support), rather than all proposed individual reforms per se, became completely blurred. Indeed, echoing the 1910-11 controversy, the group was later to explicitly state that socialist MPs in parliament should even vote against reform measures that are in the interests of the working class (Socialist Studies, 43).

what the fuck?????

 

[love detective]

thing is that's what most of the public think about the left in general when they hear them drone on about stuff

 

[JimW]

Were the Strassers Trots?

 

[belboid]

I think he means the union group/mag solidarity (not the BNP one) and not the long dead non-bordiguist Solidarity. The CWO are similarly also non-bordiguists.

aah, okay, I'll accept that one.

 

[chilango]

Changed their name to the already listed AWL

Long since kaput. The CWO are the only Bordigaists now, I think

Oops. I missed the Soggies double entry.

As for Solidarity I actually meant the Scottish lot...

 

[Geoff Collier]

So has anyone got any more funny stories from the world of obscure left-wing politics they could add to this thread? There must be loads of them.

About thirty years ago some SWP students in Hull were living near a new Iceland store (or something similar) which was due to have an opening ceremony. They heard a loudspeaker announcement that Shirley Williams was due to open it, so they jumped out of bed and ran down the road with their banner to protest about the rightist splitter. They were a bit disappointed when Charlie Williams turned up.

 

[belboid]

Don't know about WRP but here's about the SPGB.

"Tony Turner was one of the Party’s most effective – indeed, many who heard him (both inside and outside the Party) claimed he was the finest outdoor orator of the twentieth century."

but an indoor irritator?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Exclusive correspondence that shows how the CPGB advised the external faction of Workers Power

I refuse to believe people actually put 'with communist greetings' at the end of their letters.

Then you've got this bit:

So, personally, I would not rush to try and commit to a full conference
just yet.

...which is further proof that the whole thing is an elaborate work of satire.

 

[chilango]

isn't green anarchist more like a fash entryist group to anarchism rather than anarchists themselves, with the involvement of troy southgate etc?

there was some guy on revleft who was both a trot and a fascist, he had convinced himself that trotskyism and socialism was the best way to secure the future for the white race or some bullshit

Nah. Green Anarchist, though more than a little distasteful at times were never fash. One of it's founding editors, Richard Hunt iirc, later left and set up a mag called Alternative Green, which did provide a platform for fash on the fringes of the green movement.

Green Anarchist later split, and for a time there were two rival publications of the same name.

 

[chilango]

"A visit to Planet ICC" was a cracking insight into the barminess, documenting a spiralling spat between the ICC and Subversion. Can't find it online sadly.

 

[chilango]

Fifth International is so 90s.

 

[Geoff Collier]

Chubby Brown? League of Gentlemen?

Royston Bull actually.

 

[frogwoman]

Fifth International is so 90s.

that cant be real can it?

 

[love detective]

...which is further proof that the whole thing is an elaborate work of satire.

just goes to show how fucked up the left is that what you attributed as satire was the actual genuine non-satirical reply to a satirical letter

 

[SpookyFrank]

just goes to show how fucked up the left is that what you attributed as satire was the actual genuine non-satirical reply to a satirical letter

Hold on a minute, which one was supposed to be a piss take? I find it hard to believe any of these people are serious tbh.

 

[chilango]

For clarity there are two International Communist Parties in the UK.

One is "more widely" known as the Socialist Equality Party, a Yorkshire based fragment of the WRP, the other is the inheritor of the Bordigist tradition and is linked to the Italian party of the same name an apparently publishes something called "Communist Left".

I've never encountered the latter group however.