Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

[Paulie Tandoori]

Why?

prejudicing a jury? revealing details of past life that aren't necessarily relevant to case but could sway influence? that kind of thing.

 

[Belushi]

this taking of 'likes' on facebook as representative of significant views gets wearing. The likeage variable is so huge. Theres everything from reflex likers, considered likers and everything in between. Its about as significant as someone nodding while another person says something. imo

Not forgetting you often have to like a page in order to call them cunts

 

[sihhi]

Telegraph has info on the parents

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-mother-tried-to-prevent-radicalisation.html

 

[butchersapron]

prejudicing a jury? revealing details of past life that aren't necessarily relevant to case but could sway influence? that kind of thing.

What jury? What charges? That's the key bit here.

 

[SpineyNorman]

this taking of 'likes' on facebook as representative of significant views gets wearing. The likeage variable is so huge. Theres everything from reflex likers, considered likers and everything in between. Its about as significant as someone nodding while another person says something. imo

Yeah, and it's even more irritating when it's an event, especially when you're the one organising it and you hope to get an indication of how many people will turn up - loads of people say they're attending it when what they actually mean is they have no intention of coming - and often live in another country on the other side of the globe - but they just generally agree with whatever its aims might be. As a general rule it seems to be about 1/10 who actually turn up - don't know if the 'like' thing has similar proportionality or not.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Think it will take more than newspaper articles mentioning their personal lives to get them off - they were caught red handed - literally - and judging by their statements immediately after have no intention of denying what they did.

that isn't really the point. the media use the word "alleged" and "accused" for very particular legal reasons, when discussing what people are said to have done. that's why, for eg, ITV apparently took the "confession" to the killing from red-hand geezer out of their 6pm coverage, but left the "eye for an eye" bit in.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

What jury? What charges? That's the key bit here.

? so there won't be a trial here?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Telegraph has info on the parents

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-mother-tried-to-prevent-radicalisation.html

Skim-read that. Poor woman. Articles like that about her already. She hasn't spoken to the Telegraph - 'friends' have. Leave her alone.

 

[butchersapron]

? so there won't be a trial here?

Think about it paulie.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Telegraph has info on the parents

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-mother-tried-to-prevent-radicalisation.html

Interesting - looks like he came from a middle class background - would be interesting to see some kind of analysis of the class backgrounds of 'western' born (meaning British, European, US etc) suicide bombers if anyone knows of one.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Think about it paulie.

You thinking enemy combatants?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Think about it paulie.

they're gwan to die in the hospital?

jeremy hunt's masterplan comes through at last?

struggling otherwise chief....

 

[butchersapron]

they're gwan to die in the hospital?

jeremy hunt's masterplan comes through at last?

struggling otherwise chief....

Other than talking about stuff that is part of a trial we sort of have the right to talk about what we want - you want to get rid of that?


Please let me know if you are paulie tandori so i can cut you some slack.

 

[SpineyNorman]

they're gwan to die in the hospital?

jeremy hunt's masterplan comes through at last?

struggling otherwise chief....

Those aren't the only options. Think about what has happened to other British born terror suspects.

 

[sihhi]

Interesting - looks like he came from a middle class background - would be interesting to see some kind of analysis of the class backgrounds of 'western' born (meaning British, European, US etc) suicide bombers if anyone knows of one.

Single parent household, a probation officer mother, Greenwich University degree not completed.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Other than talking about stuff that is part of a trial we sort of have the right to talk about what we want - you want to get rid of that?


Please let me know if you are paulie tandori so i can cut you some slack.

do you want your five punts now?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Those aren't the only options. Think about what has happened to other British born terror suspects.

what, ship them off to gitmo? get real.

 

[agricola]

jeremy hunt's masterplan comes through at last?

For whom the bell tolls?

 

[butchersapron]

do you want your five punts now?

Not like ye to be arguing for shutting down of the press.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

what, ship them off to gitmo? get real.

That can't possibly happen. They will certainly stand trial here. It would be utterly impossible for them not to.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Not like ye to be arguing for shutting down of the press.

no, but i would argue to ensure that a fair trial takes place, and precognition as to what they did or said or witnessed shouldn't be allowed to form part of a reasoable defence.

 

[butchersapron]

no, but i would argue to ensure that a fair trial takes place, and precognition as to what they did or said or witnessed shouldn't be allowed to form part of a reasoable defence.

You're saying that background reporting can't and should no happen. They'd love that. However, the establishing work for trials on our side say otherwise. On an immediate instrumental basis - never mind the principle.

 

[Belushi]

Interesting - looks like he came from a middle class background - would be interesting to see some kind of analysis of the class backgrounds of 'western' born (meaning British, European, US etc) suicide bombers if anyone knows of one.

From what I can glean from the article he grew up on council estates. Woolwich is a tough neighbourhood, a lot of deprivation. An old white community and a fairly recently arrived african community which has its own divisions, especially between Muslims and Christians. It can be a tough place to bring up kids and it can be hard to keep them out of trouble.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

You're saying that background reporting can't and should no happen. They'd love that. However, the establishing work for trials on our side say otherwise. On an immediate instrumental basis - never mind the principle.

no, but it's quite a new thing to see such a level of detail immediately available on the crime, the aftermath, the background etc and if i was a defence lawyer, i reckon i could get the first couple of juries discharged simply on asking whose got a twitter, facebook or even fucking daily mirror bookmark, let alone the rest.

i'm not saying i support suppressing anything, i'm just asking questions as to how, or if, the existing judicial process could be affected.

 

[butchersapron]

And not at all is the answer.

 

[coley]

Yeah I do think the motivations are different, though linked in some ways. But having a significant part of the Muslim population with serious grievances against British foreign policy must make it easier for them to hide - just like if the IRA hadn't had so much support among Catholics in NI it would have been easier to deal with them - for various reasons. They might feel more inclined to help them hide, or at least less inclined to inform on them. And I dare say there are some who may express support online etc for these actions but who would never do them (and if they saw it up close would likely be as disgusted as anyone else) - absent these grievances that kind of 'noise' would surely be reduced.

I'm just thinking out loud now by the way, this is probably full of holes.

No, thinking out loud is fine, it's much more honest and open to debate than carefully constructed arguments designed to score points rather than understand the problem/issue under discussion.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

we shall see i suppose.

 

[butchersapron]

we shall see i suppose.

Why not get your old name back you daftie.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Why not get your old name back you daftie.

feck knows, don't know how to really. good to speak to you again anyhow you old grumpy

 

[Bernie Gunther]

MI5 asked Woolwich murder suspect Michael Adebolajo if he wanted to work for them, a childhood friend has said.

Abu Nusaybah told BBC Two's Newsnight his friend had revealed to him six months ago that the security service had been "knocking on his door".

He said Mr Adebolajo told him he had turned down an offer to work for them. The BBC could not obtain any confirmation from Whitehall sources.

Mr Nusaybah was arrested at the BBC after giving the interview.

Mr Nusaybah said that, six months ago, his friend was "basically being harassed by MI5, this is something that he specifically mentioned to me".

He added: "His wording was, 'They are bugging me - they won't leave me alone.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468