Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

[Casually Red]

Some random nutjob gobbing off is not an admission of anything.
Dodgy stuff went down no doubt but I doubt anyone involved would be gobbing off on a cif about it.

whats the argument about...the collusion policy or someone talking about it on the internet..i dunno what a cif is

 

[shygirl]

A lot of dodgy stuff went down.

 

[Casually Red]

Perhaps. BBC News web site says that both suspects were 'known' to the intelligence services.

all that admission means is they had their cards marked somewhere along the line

 

[likesfish]

Comment is free the guardians board the chances of somebody actually having knowledge of what went on or didnt posting it is I d imagine fairly low.

 

[Pickman's model]

all that admission means is they had their cards marked somewhere along the line

i think it means a bit more than that: after all, mi5 collect the names of everyone who signs a petition or who writes to a paper.

 

[Casually Red]

A lot of dodgy stuff went down.

the entire policy here was one of outright dodginess .

 

[likesfish]

think they were marked as known radicals but not off a holiday to pakistan somalia or syria not considered a threat.
oops

 

[Anudder Oik]

People aren't that stupid, surely? What, take to the streets and demand any extreme Islamists tone it down a bit?

When ETA let off bombs in Spain or assassinated people, millions took to the streets to protest spontaneiously. They were under no illusion that their protest would have effect but they needed to make themselves heard.

I think that any protest organised by a party like UKIP in reaction to this barbaric terrorist attack would attract a layer of people whose concerns overlap with a rejection of mass immigration.

If the EDl have doubled their likes on facebook, just think of the prospects for UKIP now.

People are angered by the fact the attacker has a london accent.

This is what i have heard today;

"They have lived in this country and been educated in this country and had all the benefits of being born here probably but they hate England. They make me sick. They should be sent back to their parents place in Africa see how they like it there".

 

[dylanredefined]

No MP5?

I'm thinking the officers, confronted by people running towards them with meat cleavers, would have had to use pistols and would barely have had a chance to aim. They did well to hit them at all. But everyone is conspiralooning about the mystery of them not being killed.

They would have 3 or 4 seconds which is plenty of time to draw and fire one round.A 9mm round will drop you ,but, unless its a brain or a heart shot not an instant kill and medical services can save you.
MP5 is a bit old fashioned a 5.56mm rifle is preferred like the g36 now gives you more range and power without the over pentration.

 

[JimW]

all that admission means is they had their cards marked somewhere along the line

Some bit in the Guardian feed said they had them down as peripheral. One used to leaflet his high street apparently.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep, doesn't mean they followed - it means they were logged in some obv book and if came up on another radar a light flashed.

 

[stuff_it]

It was a revolver and it "blew up".
I've fired thousands of rounds through revolvers, and I've never had a round or a revolver blow up, or heard of one doing so - they're made to be able to withstand over-pressure by a factor of at least 2 - whereas I've heard numerous stories in the media and from acquaintances about Brococks either fracturing or blowing apart from the pressure of a single live round. Also, Brococks are still the most prevalent "modified" weapon available

Booya Dee reckoned it was a rusty .45.

 

[JimW]

Booya Dee reckoned it was a rusty .45.

And this is one of at least three such incidents he's seen, so he'll know

 

[Idaho]

It's a strange belief; that attacking and scaring normal people will somehow make them elect non - draconian governments. Foolish and tragic really. Also odd seeing as the biggest killers of average Muslims in Iraq are now AQ sympathisers attacking Shia.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Booya Dee reckoned it was a rusty .45.

Unless he was close enough to see the rounds, he wouldn't know. I strongly suspect that Brov Booya calls all pistols a "45", just like his older brother called all pistols a "9" 10 years ago.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Caught red handed!

Sorry, really bad taste I know but it's made me wonder if that saying started with this kind of thing - not people murdering and decapitating off duty squaddies on a busy highstreet but murderers being caught while they still have the victim's blood on their hands - it must have surely?

 

[frogwoman]

It's a strange belief; that attacking and scaring normal people will somehow make them elect non - draconian governments. Foolish and tragic really. Also odd seeing as the biggest killers of average Muslims in Iraq are now AQ sympathisers attacking Shia.

They don't want anyone to elect non-draconian governments, they want a war.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No MP5?

Frieda probably means "2 carbines" when he wrote "2 rifles", tbf.

 

[butchersapron]

It's a strange belief; that attacking and scaring normal people will somehow make them elect non - draconian governments. Foolish and tragic really. Also odd seeing as the biggest killers of average Muslims in Iraq are now AQ sympathisers attacking Shia.

It's nothing to do with draconian or elections - it's to do overseas projection. And the spanish election following the train bombings gave them what they wanted - i'm not saying the two are causally connected but it appeared that way to them, to the fundies.

 

[dylanredefined]

They don't want anyone to elect non-draconian governments, they want a war.

Why? Its not like they would win.

 

[butchersapron]

Assad killed 80 000 muslims so far. This is about two things: people alienated from this society and islamist freaks taking advantage of that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I had a book by Kitson in the early 80's, (lent it to someone and never got it back), which got banned. It exposed a lot about dirty tricks.

TBF, anything Sir Frank "psycho-torturer cunt" Kitson ever said, I tend to operate on the principle that the reverse is true. He was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Northern Ireland, and yet happen he did.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Police in evidence-planting shocker!!!

 

[Pickman's model]

I had a book by Kitson in the early 80's, (lent it to someone and never got it back), which got banned. It exposed a lot about dirty tricks.

this would be low intensity operations i suppose.

 

[ViolentPanda]

this would be low intensity operations i suppose.

Never been banned, that I'm aware.
he's a fucking shit writer, though. I read a historical biography he wrote of Cromwell. The prose was as dry as a mother superior's chuff.

 

[laptop]

I had a book by Kitson in the early 80's, (lent it to someone and never got it back), which got banned. It exposed a lot about dirty tricks.

Low-intensity Operations. It's er, reviewed at libcom.

 

[Pickman's model]

this would be low intensity operations i suppose.

Low-intensity Operations. It's er, reviewed at libcom.

 

[treelover]

Left Unity are being urged by the usual cranks to offer a statement, just gesture politics, its not even a proper entity yet!

 

[Casually Red]

TBF, anything Sir Frank "psycho-torturer cunt" Kitson ever said, I tend to operate on the principle that the reverse is true. He was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Northern Ireland, and yet happen he did.

its all too true

heres an example of just one character exemplified by his euphemistic term the use of freindly local forces...just one cunt mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Jackson

 

[elbows]

Assad killed 80 000 muslims so far. This is about two things: people alienated from this society and islamist freaks taking advantage of that.

Its a twist on the concept of countercultures that I havent seen explored much yet, think I briefly alluded to this in the Boston bombing thread.

A Clockwork Koran, with several additional avenues for moral panic.