Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

[ViolentPanda]

The first thing that occurred to me was that it was a Belmarsh escape, tbh.

Thought the same thing until a revolver was mentioned.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think that marks him out as a psycho.

A primary signifier for psychopathy is a lack of affect, however...
It's a matter of a fair bit of research over the last couple of decades that most suicide attackers aren't "psycho" in any conventional sense, in that their willingnness to die isn't due to mental ill-health, it's due to a rational assessment of the asymmetry of offensive means between the attacker and the state.

 

[cesare]

Thought the same thing until a revolver was mentioned.

It all makes sense if you look at it that way (for me). Explains much of the "eh" stuff.

What do you mean about the revolver, btw?

 

[JimW]

I think that marks him out as a psycho.

Convinced of his own righteousness also a possibility too though I reckon. All speculative from me of course, but just that opener from KM did leap right out so much so I thought he was quoting from the link. Point BA highlighted is excellent.

 

[Casually Red]

The guardian eye-witness account is fucking hilarious. sorry. but im not in the uk at the moment and am slightly homesick for it. i actually giggled reading that. the british....

standing over a half decapitated man, she asks the perp if theres anything else she can do for him before her bus leaves. then finds time to whinge about getting dropped off at the wrong stop. classic.

i had tea coming out of my nose watching the BBC yesterday afternoon . They were interviewing by phone a local eyewitness who was going on about owning a garage down the road . His accent sounded really sarf london geezer..bit tasty..sweeneys extra.,etc etc and i was mildly chiding myself for conjuring up such a stereotype in my mind just because of someones accent . When all of a sudden he tells the interviewer..and then this geezer goes towards the armed police with a pistol in his hand. Thats just nuts..even I wouldnt go up against the police with just a handgun...followed by quite a lengthy pause from both interviewer and interviewee.

 

[Casually Red]

No comment from Blair yet?

hell say you should thank him, because if Britain hadnt invaded Iraq and killed all those people these guys would have had nukes and not knives . And hell expect you to thank him as well, and advise you to smell how sweet his farts are .

 

[likesfish]

The guy from cif obviously wrote the nemises file or its equally "dodgy" new version

 

[laptop]

So, Thames House theatre using a couple of gullible prannets and an "expendable" squaddie, or genuine attack?

Me, I'm torn. I don't want to think "conspiracy", but there are a few things that aren't tracking yet - the whole event seems...convenient, for want of a better word.

Nah. No need. Some random shit can be relied to come up: then exploit it.

Cameron could hardly have been expected, under the circumstances, to say "this isn't serious terrorism, it's just swivel-eyed loons" - could he?

 

[Pickman's model]

Nah. No need. Some random shit can be relied to come up: then exploit it.

Cameron could hardly have been expected, under the circumstances, to say "this isn't serious terrorism, it's just swivel-eyed loons" - could he?

not when it turned out yer man wasn't from the witney triangle

 

[ViolentPanda]

It all makes sense if you look at it that way (for me). Explains much of the "eh" stuff.

What do you mean about the revolver, btw?

The part of Belmarsh that the Muslim "politicals" are held in is high security. Getting a revolver in there would be akin to getting an elephant's dick up a mouse's arse - impossible. Shivs though, not quite as difficult.
So, the only plausible scenario if escape from Belmarsh was involved would be these blokes breaking out, and jumping into a car where a gun and knives had been deliberately stashed there for them, IYSWIM.
BTW, sounding like the revolver was a rebored Brocock (which uses cartridges charged with compressed air, but gets rebored by idiots so it'll take pistol ammo), so the fact that it blew up in the bandito's hand isn't surprising.

 

[Pickman's model]

The part of Belmarsh that the Muslim "politicals" are held in is high security. Getting a revolver in there would be akin to getting an elephant's dick up a mouse's arse - impossible.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i had tea coming out of my nose watching the BBC yesterday afternoon . They were interviewing by phone a local eyewitness who was going on about owning a garage down the road . His accent sounded really sarf london geezer..bit tasty..sweeneys extra.,etc etc and i was mildly chiding myself for conjuring up such a stereotype in my mind just because of someones accent . When all of a sudden he tells the interviewer..and then this geezer goes towards the armed police with a pistol in his hand. Thats just nuts..even I wouldnt go up against the police with just a handgun...followed by quite a lengthy pause from both interviewer and interviewee.

Fortunately the interviewee managed to stop himself before blurting out "...now, if I 'ad me trusty double-barrel sawn-off, it's be a different story!!".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Is that in Belmarsh, then?

 

[Pickman's model]

Is that in Belmarsh, then?

no: in a german high security prison. and billy wright in a british high security prison. not to mention the brixton busters



so getting a weapon into a prison though difficult is not impossible

 

[ViolentPanda]

no: in a german high security prison. and billy wright in a british high security prison. not to mention the brixton busters



so getting a weapon into a prison though difficult is not impossible

You really are an insufferably pedantick arsehole sometimes.

 

[Pickman's model]

You really are an insufferably pedantick arsehole sometimes.

how many times in your lifetime has the impossible happened? you should know better by now that nothing is impossible.

 

[where to]

Re ukip, I read they emailed their members telling them not to comment for fear of media twisting. Not sure if true though. the silence is clear though.

 

[cesare]

The part of Belmarsh that the Muslim "politicals" are held in is high security. Getting a revolver in there would be akin to getting an elephant's dick up a mouse's arse - impossible. Shivs though, not quite as difficult.
So, the only plausible scenario if escape from Belmarsh was involved would be these blokes breaking out, and jumping into a car where a gun and knives had been deliberately stashed there for them, IYSWIM.
BTW, sounding like the revolver was a rebored Brocock (which uses cartridges charged with compressed air, but gets rebored by idiots so it'll take pistol ammo), so the fact that it blew up in the bandito's hand isn't surprising.

There's not many in the SSU though, is there (11 in 2009). Is that where you meant? I was thinking more along the lines of house block 3 and radicalisation inside.

 

[Pickman's model]

Re ukip, I read they emailed their members telling them not to comment for fear of media twisting. Not sure if true though. the silence is clear though.

link or stfu

 

[Casually Red]

There was, to be fair, no way to know that these men were more woman and child friendly than your average run of the mill terrorist.

Their apology for women and children having to see it makes me wonder if that may be part of the reason that they chose to attack one individual soldier (that they could tell themselves counted as a combatant) rather than an indiscriminate attack.

.

you dont seem to grasp that your average run of the mill terrorist has no interest in specifically killing women and kids ..although theyre prepared to accept them as collateral damage in the same way the western governments are ..and very often has no prior convictions for violent or anti social behaviour . And that apart from their radicalised beliefs they are often very normal people . Id lay a heavy bet theyve never stabbed anyone before.
These guys see themselves as going up against a bunch of mad dog indiscriminate mass murderers , and that they are the ones who are inherently decent .
They act according to a logic, drop bombs on muslim towns and kill civilians indiscriminately..then be prepared to face the same in your own towns . Target our soldiers for assassination, then we will target yours .
I said at the very outset of this thread before any islamic link was in the frame was what stood out was how discriminating they were, which right away said to me this was political and not just two crackheads .

 

[stuff_it]

you dont seem to grasp that your average run of the mill terrorist has no interest in specifically killing women and kids ..although theyre prepared to accept them as collateral damage in the same way the western governments are ..and very often has no prior convictions for violent or anti social behaviour . And that apart from their radicalised beliefs they are often very normal people . Id lay a heavy bet theyve never stabbed anyone before.
These guys see themselves as going up against a bunch of mad dog indiscriminate mass murderers , and that they are the ones who are inherently decent .
They act according to a logic, drop bombs on muslim towns and kill civilians indiscriminately..then be prepared to face the same in your own towns . Target our soldiers for assassination, then we will target yours .
I said at the very outset of this thread before any islamic link was in the frame was what stood out was how discriminating they were, which right away said to me this was political and not just two crackheads .

Really? The 911 terrorists supposedly cut the throat of an air stewardess with a box cutter - you can't get much more up close and personal than that. Or didn't some woman get her head chopped off in Afghanistan?

 

[butchersapron]

Really? The 911 terrorists supposedly cut the throat of an air stewardess with a box cutter - you can't get much more up close and personal than that.

No they didn't.

 

[where to]

link or stfu

The ex ukip youth leader who quit recently tweeted this yesterday.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There's not many in the SSU though, is there (11 in 2009). Is that where you meant?

Yep.

I was thinking more along the lines of house block 3 and radicalisation inside.

From what I've heard, the HO has been attempting to deal with the issue of radicalisation in prisons by putting potential radicals and potential radicalisers on the merry-go-round (basically, shifting inmates from prison to prison every 3-4 weeks) as a precautionary measure. That way you supposedly don't have inmates having enough time to make the sort of associations necessary.

 

[D'wards]

"A lot of English people"?
care to quantify that, or a re you talking out of your arse?

Sigh - facking arsehole minefield round here

 

[Pickman's model]

The ex ukip youth leader who quit recently tweeted this yesterday.

no, not who said it, LINK or stfu.

 

[ddraig]

Sigh - facking arsehole minefield round here

try and stop talking out of yours then

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sigh - facking arsehole minefield round here

Not if you don't chat shite.

 

[Casually Red]

Really? The 911 terrorists supposedly cut the throat of an air stewardess with a box cutter - you can't get much more up close and personal than that. Or didn't some woman get her head chopped off in Afghanistan?

thats my point blown out of the water then

 

[cesare]

From what I've heard, the HO has been attempting to deal with the issue of radicalisation in prisons by putting potential radicals and potential radicalisers on the merry-go-round (basically, shifting inmates from prison to prison every 3-4 weeks) as a precautionary measure. That way you supposedly don't have inmates having enough time to make the sort of associations necessary.

I can see the sense of that. But it's entirely possible that people can radicalise despite those precautions, and it might not be noticed.