Will you vote for independence?

[Quartz]

Classic Quartz, £200 million is pocket change.

It may be but weepiper was indicating that that is the cost to Scotland when it is not.

As for the "off benefits" remark, just have a modicum of self-respect... I ask, of course, out of empathy - just want to make sure you're doing alright.

No, you're not asking out of empathy; you're choosing to believe that I'm being nasty. You've read my posts long enough to know that I don't do nastiness. And I'm doing fine financially.

You're not inferring it, there is nothing in her post to infer that. The opposite, in fact, is what you're implying.

Nope. She was commenting on the costs, which means she'd be paying them. Which means that she's now paying taxes. From which I inferred that she is prospering. Of course, the cost doesn't matter if you're not paying it.

Now he will disappear, pop his head up in the next discussion with some pointless trolling comment that he can't bothered defending properly and no doubt claim "yes supporters never answer a question" whenever he gets the opportunity.

I'm glad to prove that you are, as usual, wrong about me.

 

[DexterTCN]

Personal judgements are a minor thing in the context of what we're discussing.

Without getting caught up in an argument...you should consider that what you said was offensive.

 

[two sheds]

It may be but weepiper was indicating that that is the cost to Scotland when it is not.

Was she? She could just as easily have been saying that as someone from (at the moment) the UK - would still have been a valid comparison.

 

[Quartz]

Without getting caught up in an argument...you should consider that what you said was offensive.

No, it was evidently mistaken; the responses were offensive. All weepiper had to reply was something along the lines of 'Sadly no '

 

[DairyQueen]

Pedantry you want, pedantry you shall have...

It may be but weepiper was indicating that that is the cost to Scotland when it is not.

She actually said "we". As a unionist, surely you would agree that 'we' are British.

No, you're not asking out of empathy; you're choosing to believe that I'm being nasty. You've read my posts long enough to know that I don't do nastiness. And I'm doing fine financially.

No, you were being nasty. I want too believe it was just stupidity.

Nope. She was commenting on the costs, which means she'd be paying them. Which means that she's now paying taxes. From which I inferred that she is prospering. Of course, the cost doesn't matter if you're not paying it.

Now he will disappear, pop his head up in the next discussion with some pointless trolling comment that he can't bothered defending properly and no doubt claim "yes supporters never answer a question" whenever he gets the opportunity.

But you are not addressing any key issue here. You made a claim, containing a large amount of insinuations, that cannot be debated seriously. You were implying the start-up costs are outrageous and wanted some confirmation that weepiper was paying taxes. You are saying the second point is not true. I have no idea what to make of the first now.

 

[weepiper]

Dude you only have to be earning £10k to be paying income tax. Hardly 'prospering'.

 

[two sheds]

No, it was evidently mistaken; the responses were offensive. All weepiper had to reply was something along the lines of 'Sadly no '

Come on, you did clearly cause offense. All you had to reply was something along the lines of 'sorry I didn't mean it in that way ...

 

[Quartz]

You were implying the start-up costs are outrageous

Now you're just inventing stuff. Or are you trying a red herring? I pointed out that wee's figure was incorrect anmd the costs to Scotland were, at ~£17M, much less than the £200M she cited.

 

[DexterTCN]

No, it was evidently mistaken; the responses were offensive. All weepiper had to reply was something along the lines of 'Sadly no '

And yet you still leave the offence hanging there

 

[Quartz]

Come on, you did clearly cause offense. All you had to reply was something along the lines of 'sorry I didn't mean it in that way ...

Indeed, but the offenderati decided to take offence and attack me before I could do so.

 

[two sheds]

Indeed, but the offenderati decided to take offence and attack me before I could do so.

There's still time

 

[weepiper]

Indeed, but the offenderati decided to take offence and attack me before I could do so.

Well are you going to now? Because it was quite offensive tbh.

 

[DairyQueen]

Now you're just inventing stuff. Or are you trying a red herring? I pointed out that wee's figure was incorrect anmd the costs to Scotland were, at ~£17M, much less than the £200M she cited.

But why raise the point about £40 for every adult and child? Using the monarchy as a comparison is also fine (as would be using any other public expenditure). That is how much it costs to keep the Royal Family in a standard of living it is accustomed for one year. The example is obviously intended to highlight how much public expenditure is wasted, and that this investment would not be wasted by comparison.

 

[equationgirl]

That's for the whole of the UK, not just Scotland, and from a highly biased site; Scotland's share would be ~£17M. Anyway, £200M is ~£40 for every person (adult or child). That would be £160 for you. (And I'm glad to infer that you're now prospering and off benefits.)

What's with the comment about weepiper's financial situation? Why did you feel it necessary to comment anyway? It's nothing to do with you.

 

[DotCommunist]

am I wrong to want to go round undecided houses and beat them into proper thinking?

 

[DotCommunist]

I've yet to see a sane argument for a region some 100 or more miles north of me being run by westminster at main. I don't rate liberal democracy. But under its own terms the set up is proper wtf

 

[equationgirl]

Indeed, but the offenderati decided to take offence and attack me before I could do so.

And 'offenderati' ? Really? You posted something offensive, yet act all surprised when offence is taken.

Plus you've had plenty of time of apologise (and no, you weren't 'attacked' before you could do so) but you still haven't. Why is that?

 

[equationgirl]

am I wrong to want to go round undecided houses and beat them into proper thinking?

Come at me bro

 

[danny la rouge]

Back to the case in point.

The cost of setting up an independent Scotland: £200 million.
The cost of building the Millennium Dome: £700 million.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...e-for-scotland-to-transition-to-independence/

The first is the creation of a liberal democratic state.
The second is a big tent.

 

[weepiper]

The Edinburgh tram project has cost nearly £1billion. A few miles' worth of tramline serving one city has cost 5 times what it could cost to set up a whole new state. £200 million is peanuts.

 

[gosub]

that £200 million isn't a full and final figure. It is a lot less than the billions the treasury is saying though. Also reckons on a 8 year transition

 

[geminisnake]

Can I just point out most of the population of the UK pay taxes in some form or other. People on benefits don't get excused VAT on anything(clothing, electricity, gas etc), so anyone who thinks some don't contribute can go jump off the pier!

 

[weepiper]

Can I just point out most of the population of the UK pay taxes in some form or other. People on benefits don't get excused VAT on anything(clothing, electricity, gas etc), so anyone who thinks some don't contribute can go jump of the pier!

Fuel tax, car tax and council tax too. Just cos I don't earn enough to pay income tax it doesn't mean I don't have a right to an opinion on my future.

 

[tommers]

200 divided by 50 isn't 40 by the way. It's 4.

 

[steeplejack]

UK government colluidng and pleading with foreign governments to try to get them to speak out vs. independence

not very suprising, utterly pathetic. whoever votes for these fucking muppets by voting NO deserve all they get. Trouble is the rest of us will be caught up in the consequences of a no vote too.

 

[DexterTCN]

It's not pathetic...it's good sense. It's aimed at don't-knows.

The 'argument' now does not lie with the yesses and the noes, it lies with the don't-knows. The better together lot are now trying to distract us with attacks whilst at the same time trying to lure them, playing on fears. They've been doing it for a while with not very good results. But they have a tactic and although they will adapt it they won't change it.

They have the media. We have the social media. And we live next to them, that helps.

If it becomes an us-v-them thing, we will surely lose. The (professional?) Yes side are playing this well, they let things drop and they keep on with the central messages. We have to be the same.

Every time we call someone a cunt, a prick...we lose 5 votes. Every time we say very little we seem to gain 3. Kinda.

I think there is a strong case for independence but that's in my nature, my nature defines my logic....my nature is changeable to an extent, so is everyone's.

 

[danny la rouge]

that £200 million isn't a full and final figure.

It's the set-up costs.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...itioning-to-a-new-Scottish-state-PD-ebook.pdf

 

[DairyQueen]

It's not pathetic...it's good sense. It's aimed at don't-knows.

The 'argument' now does not lie with the yesses and the noes, it lies with the don't-knows. The better together lot are now trying to distract us with attacks whilst at the same time trying to lure them, playing on fears. They've been doing it for a while with not very good results. But they have a tactic and although they will adapt it they won't change it.

...

I think there is a strong case for independence but that's in my nature, my nature defines my logic....my nature is changeable to an extent, so is everyone's.

The problem I have is the fact that Scottish history is fair game to be belittled (particularly William Wallace and the Wars of Independence). The idea of a Scottish culture is can even be construed as offensive or ridiculous. I am not a nationalist so I don't mind some denigration if it is well-intentioned. I just don't see the same about British or English historical figures. Any criticism of these individuals is considered 'anti-English' nationalism. These types of issues won't be water under the bridge like funny pictures of Ed Miliband in a General Election campaign.

Can you imagine what would happen if this type of campaign took place in a Northern Irish referendum?

 

[DotCommunist]

so basically the cost of setting pictland up more permanently would be what it costs to do an oil change on the Trident subs they harbour and represents about 0000001% of the oil and gas p's that should have been nationalised for the good of the union? Wooo.

I'm beginning to think in the event of a yes vote the eton set won't honour to the plebiscite. They've made no efforts except crap ones.

its a very close thing with yes/no on near half split vote but the undecideds...those will be the key.

I really want to see camerons sweaty well fed shiny face struggling to hold his tears while he loses the major plank of Union. I don't even really care except in an abstract way cos life will continue as normal. For Davey C it'll be him going down in history as the man who lost scotland. And in toryism, they care about the union.

it will be righteous.

 

[gosub]

It's the set-up costs.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...itioning-to-a-new-Scottish-state-PD-ebook.pdf

Not including IT and backroom support which according to that report will be another several hundred million though not pin downable due to it being dependant on negotiations with rUK