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Will you vote for independence?

Scottish independence?

  • Yes please

    Votes: 99 56.6%
  • No thanks

    Votes: 57 32.6%
  • Dont know yet

    Votes: 17 9.7%

  • Total voters
    175
Hmmm. Depressingly predictable. The socialists in Spain changed their tune on NATO as soon as they were elected too back in the 80s
 
I live not far from Faslane and I'd like to see the back of the nukes. Many in the Helensburgh area are anti-indy just for the potential loss of jobs there. I wanted rid of the nukes when I lived in the Rosyth area too. Faslane is a blot on a beautiful landcape and with investment it could be a really good tourist area.

Then again I've been anti nuke all my life.

Oh and surely all those naval jobs will follow the nukes. It's not like we're not used to having our industries bulldosed flat is it..
 
MPs have called for the UK and Scottish governments to reach a deal on nuclear weapons before the 2014 referendum.

I'd want to know before going to the polling booth. If an independent Scotland would retain nukes, that for me would be a deal breaker. It's bad enough the SNP will now keep us in NATO. I'm not interested in voting for independence for the warm fuzzy feeling of having a bunch of suits in charge in Edinburgh instead of London - doing the same things anyway - and a different coloured passport.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20075674
 
MPs have called for the UK and Scottish governments to reach a deal on nuclear weapons before the 2014 referendum.

I'd want to know before going to the polling booth. If an independent Scotland would retain nukes, that for me would be a deal breaker. It's bad enough the SNP will now keep us in NATO. I'm not interested in voting for independence for the warm fuzzy feeling of having a bunch of suits in charge in Edinburgh instead of London - doing the same things anyway - and a different coloured passport.

This for me too danny. If Trident stays I'll vote no.
 
Just reading New Model Army

William diesin a copter crash and scotland refuses to recognise harry's paternity unless he takes a DNA test. He refuses so they declare the break up of the union. Then there is war and Scotland hire the New Model Army who flatten basingstoke, reduce Reading to rubble and cripple London.

Awesome seccsession


Lets do it that way
 
Bet your arse the only reason they're in Scotland is because we're the minority country. How about we send them to a Tory heartland?

Actually most of the UK's nukes are kept at Burghfield in part due to its proximity to AWE at Aldermarston, which is in rural Berkshire. Its just that the UK's only means of using the bombs are the subs and it would be quite hard to store them in the Cotswolds. Over the years there have been some worryingly high radiation reports in and around Reading.

There are probably numerous reasons for keeping the subs at Faslane such as the geography of the harbour and its proximity from mainland Europe etc. Anyway they shouldnt be anywhere in the UK.

On a seperate note does anyone have a link to any recent regional polling? No real reason beyond interest.
 
What a bunch of opportunist cunts the SNP have turned out to be, they almost disappeared a few years ago and had to call back the old leader and now they are giving up their "principles".

If they don't win the vote I bet they become all CND again with-in a month, WANKERS!!!
 
On a seperate note does anyone have a link to any recent regional polling? No real reason beyond interest.

there's a YouGov one which has been published today

YouGov interviewed over 1000 Scottish adults across Scotland after the SNP's annual conference in Perth
Nationally, 55% said ''No'' to the question ''Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?'', with 29% saying ''Yes'' and 14% undecided.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Po...-poll-a-blow-to-snp-s-independence-hopes.html
 
does anyone have any views on the impact - if any - of this weeks kerfuffle surrounding the 'legal advice' on EU membership that doesn't actually appear to exist, or been asked for?
 
I was talking to someone from Northern Ireland this week and he made the point that if Scotland were to go independent it would likely end with Norther Ireland also going it alone....the celtic connection means that Scotland being part of the union makes the union more tolerable for NI, but a union without them, jsut with the English and Welsh would be a lot less acceptable.

I think theres a lot of truth in that...or maybe its my wishful thinking.
 
MPs have called for the UK and Scottish governments to reach a deal on nuclear weapons before the 2014 referendum.

I'd want to know before going to the polling booth. If an independent Scotland would retain nukes, that for me would be a deal breaker. It's bad enough the SNP will now keep us in NATO. I'm not interested in voting for independence for the warm fuzzy feeling of having a bunch of suits in charge in Edinburgh instead of London - doing the same things anyway - and a different coloured passport.

Aren't you in danger of missing the point a bit there? It's all very fine and well to have high political principles, but there really isn't a lot of point to taking the attitude of "unless I am guaranteed EVERYTHING I want before I vote yes, then I will vote no" - You won't be voting to keep or reject nuclear weapons, you won't be voting for EU or NATO membership, you won't even be voting about passport colour and you CERTAINLY won't be voting for (or against) the SNP - you will be voting for or against independence - i.e. the opportunity to have a say in how Scotland develops.

If there is a yes vote, the first thing which will happen is a Scottish general election, where you, I and everyone else can argue for what we believe in on a whole range of issues. Incidentally, it's highly likely there will BE no SNP by that point!

If there is a no vote, then nothing will happen - you'll get more of the same from London, alternating blue, red and yellow tories in perpetuity and you sure as hell won't EVER get rid of nuclear weapons - not even if every single person in Scotland wanted that.

Bear in mind, that this referendum isn't what a lot of people suspect it is - a choice between independence and the status quo - it's already quite clear that Labour in Scotland are busily lining themselves up as conservatives mk2 already - witness Lamont's "end this something for nothing welfare culture" tuition fees a la England, end to free NHS prescriptions etc. It's a choice between make your decisions here in Scotland, for better or worse, or have them made for you - for worse.

Imagine if you will the day after the a No vote - the glee from certain quarters will be there, as well as the sound of knives being sharpened. They wil quite rightly conclude that after decade of chirping away, the door of the budgie cage was opened, but the budgie stayed where it was, because it wasn't given a cast iron guarantee of exactly what might be in the next room.

Think of all the independent countries, struggles for that indpendence and how they got there in the end. In how many countries, where they were given a chance of living as an independent entity, was that chance turned down with "Oh...wait...it might be a bit worse with some things! It might be a wee bit uncertain...let's just stay timid".
 
First of all, you’ve messed up your tabs, and you’re quoting your own reply so it looks like that was what I’ve said.

Aren't you in danger of missing the point a bit there?
I think you may have missed mine.
It's all very fine and well to have high political principles, but there really isn't a lot of point to taking the attitude of "unless I am guaranteed EVERYTHING I want before I vote yes, then I will vote no" –
I think you misunderstand: I’d only vote “yes” for certain practical advantages. I don’t actually support a separate Scottish state in and of itself; I’d be voting “yes” for pragmatic reasons, one of the main ones being to get rid of nukes.
You won't be voting to keep or reject nuclear weapons, you won't be voting for EU or NATO membership, you won't even be voting about passport colour and you CERTAINLY won't be voting for (or against) the SNP - you will be voting for or against independence - i.e. the opportunity to have a say in how Scotland develops.
No, I’d be voting to get rid of nukes.
Incidentally, it's highly likely there will BE no SNP by that point!
I utterly disagree. There is no way at all that the SNP would not exist to stand at the first post independence election.
If there is a no vote, then nothing will happen - you'll get more of the same from London, alternating blue, red and yellow tories in perpetuity and you sure as hell won't EVER get rid of nuclear weapons - not even if every single person in Scotland wanted that.
If there is a “yes” vote, and the SNP carries on the way it’s going (ever rightward), then we’ll get the same as you describe, only in Edinburgh instead of London. I’m not in the least interested in giving that any legitimacy.
It's a choice between make your decisions here in Scotland, for better or worse, or have them made for you - for worse.
If there is an independent Scotland after 2014 (and my current bet is not), the same people would be making the political decisions for me. They’ll just be in Edinburgh.
Think of all the independent countries, struggles for that indpendence and how they got there in the end. In how many countries, where they were given a chance of living as an independent entity, was that chance turned down with "Oh...wait...it might be a bit worse with some things! It might be a wee bit uncertain...let's just stay timid".
I’m not a nationalist, and your pep talk leaves me unmoved. In fact, it’s actually the kind of talk that makes me less interested in taking part in the whole circus.

If I vote “yes”, it will not be because I want “the chance of [Scotland] living as an independent entity”. That concept is meaningless to me. Scotland is an area on a map, not any kind of living organism. I don’t care where borders are drawn; they’re arbitrary lines on a map. I drive to Staffordshire frequently, and when I cross the border into England, I feel no difference and see no difference. When I speak to ordinary people in Carlisle, Stoke-on-Trent, Normandy, Rome, Cork, or Miami, I find more in common with them than I’ll ever feel with Brian Souter, Jim McColl of Clyde Blowers, or the Earl of Dalkieth.
 
I think it would be difficult to get rid of the nukes immediately, although it's a policy I am 100% in favour of. Politically it would be better to leave it alone for a while, it's too easy a target for the anti-independence lot. A policy much more easily enacted once you have the keys to the car, you are in the car and you are driving the car.

Without independence, there's no chance it will happen....voting against independence could be seen as voting for nukes. :)
 
I think it would be difficult to get rid of the nukes immediately, although it's a policy I am 100% in favour of. Politically it would be better to leave it alone for a while, it's too easy a target for the anti-independence lot. A policy much more easily enacted once you have the keys to the car, you are in the car and you are driving the car.
That sounds suspiciously like the old "we only have to pretend to be non-socialists until we get into power, then the cloaks can come off!"

An argument that says the electorate should be expected to vote on a pig in a poke is not really a great rallying cry for real democracy.

Without independence, there's no chance it will happen....voting against independence could be seen as voting for nukes. :)
I won't vote against independence. The options for me are: vote yes, or don't vote.
 
That sounds suspiciously like the old "we only have to pretend to be non-socialists until we get into power, then the cloaks can come off!"...

Not really what I was saying but I see what you mean.

Chances of a nuke-free Scotland under the status quo = zero. Chances of a nuke free Scotland with Independence = possibly not zero.
 
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotti...ust-apply-to-join-eu-warns-brussels-1-2677200

Alex Salmond’s Scottish Government has always claimed that because Scotland is already a member of the EU as part of the UK, it would automatically be given membership upon becoming independent.
However, in a letter for the Lords economic affairs committee, the European Commission has contradicted this claim.
The letter, seen by The Scotsman, states that independence “would not have a neutral impact”.
It adds: “If a territory of a member state ceases to be part of that member state because it has become an independent state then the treaties would cease to apply to that territory.”

The letter goes on to say that....


Looks like the scotsman has been telling porkies.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.ph...tsman-eu-membership-story-qincorrectq-says-ec
Reports in the Scottish media that the European Commission has sent a letter to the House of Lords claiming an independent Scotland would have to re-apply for EU membership, have been dismissed by a spokesman for EC President José Manuel Barroso...
So the Scotsman staff have seen this letter but the apparent composers say they haven't written it.
 
If an independent Scotland would have to re-apply, then would it not follow that the remainder-stump bit of the ex-uk should have to re-apply too?
 
If an independent Scotland would have to re-apply, then would it not follow that the remainder-stump bit of the ex-uk should have to re-apply too?
Yes, that's the logic. Since the state that joined would no longer exist, either both successor states are in or both are out.
 
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