I know we're jesting, but I do believe it's actually illegal and don't want editor to shut this thread down.
Will you vote for independence?
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I know we're jesting, but I do believe it's actually illegal and don't want editor to shut this thread down.
That's how the act of union came about in the first place
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
We all know it's only a joke, because it definitely is illegal and reprehensible. And none of us condones this behaviour really.
So I'll PM you.
So I'll PM you.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
It's not.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
A Yes vote is neither a vote for Salmond nor the SNP, nor even to ratify the White Paper. It is a vote for Scotland to be independent.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Sure, but I think Salmond will feel the need to reassure potential yes voters of this in his speech.
Actually, a vote for Yes is a vote for Salmond in the short term as it would be Salmond leading the negotiations for the separation from the rest of the UK and it would be Salmond leading the design of the Scottish Constitution.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So a NO vote is a vote for David Cameron. Have you lot learned nothing from the AV vote?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
was looking to see if there are any tory MSP's with a pro-indy stance and came across this:
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/archives/39653
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/archives/39653
Interesting article. But ultimately depressing - politicians in the pursuit of power acting in their own self-interest shock.
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
weltweit Never believe what you read or hear in/on the MSM. Do some research, see if you can find other sources for any story. The Guardian are not a reliable source of info other than the date and day of the week. Afaik it was Nicola Sturgeon's speech that said that, unless he's said it too, but as her speech was yesterday and his is today...............
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
weltweit Some of the speech
"Let’s take all our ideals, all our talent, all our commitment and our energy.
Let us build a nation that carries itself with pride and humility in equal measure.
That looks to its own but which gives of itself to the world as much as it possibly can.
Which yields to no one in compassion and to no-one in ambition.
And that, come independence day, walks tall among the nations of the Earth - on that day, and on every day thereafter.
This is our moment.
To be a beacon of hope.
A land of achievement.
Our country, our Scotland.
OUR INDEPENDENCE"
Alex Salmond
I think this is the full speech, I'm not a big enough fan to watch 35 minutes
"Let’s take all our ideals, all our talent, all our commitment and our energy.
Let us build a nation that carries itself with pride and humility in equal measure.
That looks to its own but which gives of itself to the world as much as it possibly can.
Which yields to no one in compassion and to no-one in ambition.
And that, come independence day, walks tall among the nations of the Earth - on that day, and on every day thereafter.
This is our moment.
To be a beacon of hope.
A land of achievement.
Our country, our Scotland.
OUR INDEPENDENCE"
Alex Salmond
I think this is the full speech, I'm not a big enough fan to watch 35 minutes
weltweit
Well-Known Member
weltweit Some of the speech
"Let’s take all our ideals, all our talent, all our commitment and our energy.
Let us build a nation that carries itself with pride and humility in equal measure.
That looks to its own but which gives of itself to the world as much as it possibly can.
Which yields to no one in compassion and to no-one in ambition.
And that, come independence day, walks tall among the nations of the Earth - on that day, and on every day thereafter.
This is our moment.
To be a beacon of hope.
A land of achievement.
Our country, our Scotland.
OUR INDEPENDENCE"
Alex Salmond
I think this is the full speech, I'm not a big enough fan to watch 35 minutes
Sounds quite rousing. Thanks for posting it. Not sure I will watch it all, but I will probably watch a bit. Wonder why they held their conference in Aberdeen and not Glasgow or somewhere ...
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well I did watch it, preaching to the converted of course but a convincing speech, he / they want it, I wonder if they will get it ...
I also wonder about the premise of the two camps, the yes campaign seems more positive, wanting something to happen, for their to be change, promising improvement, while the no campaign seems lacking in much to say, more of the same is not a very exciting prospect and perhaps harder to generate motivating copy from.
And whatever you might think of Salmond, he is a good speaker .. although he moderated himself somewhat in the speech above I think.
I also wonder about the premise of the two camps, the yes campaign seems more positive, wanting something to happen, for their to be change, promising improvement, while the no campaign seems lacking in much to say, more of the same is not a very exciting prospect and perhaps harder to generate motivating copy from.
And whatever you might think of Salmond, he is a good speaker .. although he moderated himself somewhat in the speech above I think.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
If you were pro no, I don't know if you are, and were in Darling's position what lines would you be pushing?
Read back a page: I'm deliberately undecided. This will likely be the most important vote I'll ever cast and it deserves due consideration.
I'd mix the positive and the negative. I'd say that it's foolish to dissolve a centuries-long union over a short-term fit of pique, that Scotland has it good as part of the UK, that Salmond's out for personal power and not the benefit of Scotland, that Scotland is going to have real problems both in energy supply and tax revenue once the oil runs out and that the best way of weathering them is by being part of the UK. I'd look to the very long term - 50+ years. I'd point out that the dominance of London & the South East would be replaced by dominance of the Central Belt. I'd point out the immediate loss of jobs from Defence. I might get a Tory to say that the defence contracts were bribes by Labour politicians to win votes anyway. Darling himself should claim credit for starting the present recovery, and point out the problems an independent Scotland would have had. I'd stress the defence angle: an independent Scotland will be dependent upon other countries for its defence, and other countries, when push comes to shove, might decline to help if helping would adversely affect their interests. I'd play on common sense: Great Britain being one island makes a sensible geopolitical unit. I'd kick Cameron's arse: does he really want to go down in history as the man who lost the Union? An invisible cabinet meeting in Aberdeen did not help. Darling needs money. Funding for advertising, flyers, radio spots, to help people go and spread the pro-UK message. I'm sure there's much else besides, but it's late and I've had a long day.
But we've heard almost nothing. A bit of blather about currency and that's it. And Better Together completely muffed the opportunity to say that Salmond wants power without responsibility.
The SNP have put a lot of effort and thought into this; the Unionists have not.
No offence but thats all nonsense though, every word of it, and demonstrates why no is losing the argument - they don't actually have an argument. To call a desire to run your own country a short term for of pique is also highly insulting and once more demonstrates how out of touch no voters are, this is not short term or pique its about identity and self determination.
And it's that sort of response that demonstrates the arrogance and ignorance of the Yes campaign which may be its downfall.
Many here cite the Tories as a key reason for independence.
Really? I've got a newspaper from the Yes campaign and in there it's mostly about money. '£600 indy bonus', 'No vote may hit you in the pocket', 'This could save up to £4600 per child in costs every year', etc.
Why is it arrogant to tell the truth?
You say Scotland is in line for energy issues when the oil runs out and best way to weather them is be part of the UK, but that's nonsense. Scotland produces 25% of the EU's renewable energy and is going to expand on that, the oil runs out whether we are in the UK or not but independent we make a lot of money on it in the meantime, the UK is facing an energy crisis Scotland is not Scotland is very energy rich and perfectly placed to sell energy to the UK to help alleviate its crisis.
Dominance of the central belt is fine that's the whole point that's where the majority of the people of Scotland live we want that bit dominant not part of a foreign country like London.
All countries rely on others for defence have you ever heard of NATO? Once you're in they are treaty bound to help protect you. Scotland hasn't been attacked in 700 years BTW and has absolutely no enemies, the UK has lots.
Why does great Britain being one island make it a sensible geo political unit? There are 3 nations 3 different peoples,, north,, central and south america are all one island so should they be one Big country then?
And its not about salmond or the SNP nothing to do with either, that's facile to bring those into it as a reason to vote no, so Cameron and the Tories are preferable are they cause that's the alternative, if you want to stay in the UK you're going to get Boris as pm too that's what you're advocating.
You say Scotland is in line for energy issues when the oil runs out and best way to weather them is be part of the UK, but that's nonsense. Scotland produces 25% of the EU's renewable energy and is going to expand on that, the oil runs out whether we are in the UK or not but independent we make a lot of money on it in the meantime, the UK is facing an energy crisis Scotland is not Scotland is very energy rich and perfectly placed to sell energy to the UK to help alleviate its crisis.
Dominance of the central belt is fine that's the whole point that's where the majority of the people of Scotland live we want that bit dominant not part of a foreign country like London.
All countries rely on others for defence have you ever heard of NATO? Once you're in they are treaty bound to help protect you. Scotland hasn't been attacked in 700 years BTW and has absolutely no enemies, the UK has lots.
Why does great Britain being one island make it a sensible geo political unit? There are 3 nations 3 different peoples,, north,, central and south america are all one island so should they be one Big country then?
And its not about salmond or the SNP nothing to do with either, that's facile to bring those into it as a reason to vote no, so Cameron and the Tories are preferable are they cause that's the alternative, if you want to stay in the UK you're going to get Boris as pm too that's what you're advocating.
Because it's the truth from a certain perspective. There are other perspectives.
Facts aren't perspectives, Scotland has no issues with energy supply, the UK does, and water, which we have no issue with either, and half of England going to be in the sea in 50 years, not so up here, and massively overburdened natural resources due to an enormous population in a very small area, we have no such issues.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Sounding very undecided there quartz I have to say.
No they aren't, but the choice of which facts to see and how to interpret them is. For instance, you've totally ignored the defence issue by saying that Scotland has no enemies. That's true now, but will it be true in the future?
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