Will you vote for independence?

[DairyQueen]

I don't think my feelings against the yes vote are based on fear. I don't like the idea of endless splitting and sub divisions. Scotland leaves Britain, Catalonia leaves Spain, the Basques leave France and Spain, Wales leaves Britain, Britain (what is left of it) might leave the EU... where will it end? and I don't really understand the point especially if the regions seem as they seem to want to remain in the EU.

But you are not explaining the advantages of these massive blocs. You assume that the Basques are best represented by an elite in Paris, that the Catalans are best represented by an elite in Madrid, etc. It is blatantly not true.

 

[weltweit]

But you are not explaining the advantages of these massive blocs. You assume that the Basques are best represented by an elite in Paris, that the Catalans are best represented by an elite in Madrid, etc. It is blatantly not true.

You could equally ask if any of us are best represented by an elite of unelected EU Commissioners.

But I would argue the EU has helped bring peace in Europe, something we should not take for granted.

eta: so where the EU is concerned I believe in changing it (making it better) from the inside. I think similarly about the UK. Make the UK work for Scotland, and Wales.

 

[DairyQueen]

You could equally ask if any of us are best represented by an elite of unelected EU Commissioners.

But I would argue the EU has helped bring peace in Europe, something we should not take for granted.

eta: so where the EU is concerned I believe in changing it (making it better) from the inside. I think similarly about the UK. Make the UK work for Scotland, and Wales.

But Scotland has negligible influence in the UK and none in the EU. So in the case of the UK, what you are really saying is that everyone has to wait until a very small group of politicians decide to "make UK work again", which was a Conservative Party election slogan at one point funnily enough. The only way Britain will undergo genuine change is if Scotland votes yes, or the referendum is very close.

 

[redsquirrel]

Isn't it generally accepted that poorer people are less likely to vote in elections?

It was often argued that higher turnouts benefitted Labour, implying it.
Whether that is still the case these days I don't know.

 

[weltweit]

But Scotland has negligible influence in the UK and none in the EU. So in the case of the UK, what you are really saying is that everyone has to wait until a very small group of politicians decide to "make UK work again", which was a Conservative Party election slogan at one point funnily enough. The only way Britain will undergo genuine change is if Scotland votes yes, or the referendum is very close.

I see why some want independence, they are let down by a remote Westminster elite whose policies run against the wishes of the local electorate. There is the tantalising possibility an independent Scotland with its Scotch and Oil could be like a Scandinavian country, reasonably wealthy, slightly socialist / left of centre and a good place for its people to live. But is this impossible within a reformed UK union with a higher level of devolution?

 

[weepiper]

I see why some want independence, they are let down by a remote Westminster elite whose policies run against the wishes of the local electorate. There is the tantalising possibility an independent Scotland with its Scotch and Oil could be like a Scandinavian country, reasonably wealthy, slightly socialist / left of centre and a good place for its people to live. But is this impossible within a reformed UK union with a higher level of devolution?

We're not being offered a reformed UK union with a higher level of devolution.

 

[andysays]

Maybe not, but would you have an objection to a polling organisation asking if those resident in England or Wales were for or against Scottish independence?

I can't imagine anyone would object to it, but then again I can't imagine anyone would go to the bother of carrying out such an excercise at the moment, as it's completely irrelevant.

The current suggestion to be decided by referendum is that Scotland leaves the UK (which is distinct from the UK dissolving into two or more constituent parts), so it makes sense that Scottish voters decide. Maybe if the result of that referendum is that Scotland remains in the UK, someone will suggest a future referendum for England and Wales to leave, in which case your suggestion of a poll of those resident in England and Wales might have some relevance.

 

[redsquirrel]

Maybe not, but would you have an objection to a polling organisation asking if those resident in England or Wales were for or against Scottish independence?

They have

Meanwhile the weekly YouGov/Sunday Times poll is here and has topline figures of CON 32%, LAB 39%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 12%. In England and Wales 21% support Scottish independence, 61% are opposed and English & Welsh respondents are now slightly more likely to think E&W would be worse off (27%) than better off (23%) if Scotland left.

There's not a great deal of data but there is some.

 

[Jeremy Vile]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...4cbe1e-b274-11e3-bab2-b9602293021d_story.html

Independence for Shetland?

 

[DairyQueen]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...4cbe1e-b274-11e3-bab2-b9602293021d_story.html

Independence for Shetland?

Fucking hell the No side are getting pretty desperate.

 

[JTG]

I've always wanted to go to Up Helly Aa

I suppose the Shetland/Orkney etc issue is a valid one. But I'm guessing they'll have more chance of autonomy within an independent Scotland than in the present UK

 

[danny la rouge]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ighs-in-with-reasons-to-vote-yes-9212749.html

Scottish Independence: Twitter weighs in with reasons to vote Yes

If Scotland votes Yes in the independence referendum, then the 24th March 2016 will be Scotland’s Independence Day.

The National Collective, a group of artists and creatives in favour of Scottish Independence chose the 24th March for their ‘ reasons day’. Those in favour of Independence urged to share their reasons for doing so on social media, or in a letter to their local paper. It’s caught the imagination of the Yes vote, with hundreds weighing in to voice their reasons for supporting Scottish Independence. Some of them are practical, some emotive, some legal, some frivolous. They make interesting reading (politicians: listen up!) Here’s a taster of what’s being said online right now.

http://t.co/PDhoBNfxWf

I think it's instructive that the reasons people are giving are overwhelmingly instrumental reasons. The demand for independence is not about identity.

 

[JTG]

Indeed - fwiw I think Scotland already has the most securely defined identity (as much as a nation of millions can have a single cohesive identity) of anywhere in the UK. That goes some way to giving independence a good start - the 30% who already supported it - but cannot be what tips the balance

 

[geminisnake]

Fucking hell the No side are getting pretty desperate.

Indeed, that article stinks somewhat when I've seen plenty of things suggesting the Shetlanders aren't impressed with Tavish anymore and aren't that bothered about going on their own.
As for this
Tavish Scott, Shetland’s representative in the Scottish Parliament, said an independent Scotland “doesn’t have an economy if oil and gas doesn’t happen. And that gives Shetland some leverage.”
It's blatant BOLLOCKS and been proven to be so so many times it's getting stupid now!

 

[danny la rouge]

Fucking hell the No side are getting pretty desperate.

Desperate was Johann Lamont's scarcely veiled jibe at Salmond and his wife being childless, followed by Better Together facebook pages calling him a "jaffa" .

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Fucking hell the No side are getting pretty desperate.

Not sure you can accuse the No campaign of this one. I doubt they've got editorial control over the Washington Post, and Shetlander's have been pushing for a greater share of oil revenues for a long time. Why shouldn't they use this as an opportune moment to push for a better deal?

 

[geminisnake]

Is this what you are referring to danny la rouge ??

This is disgustingly low imo, Mrs Salmond should NOT be dragged into this at all. She has done nothing to deserve this

 

[DotCommunist]

playground politics

 

[weepiper]

What's a jaffa

 

[weltweit]

What's a jaffa

Type of orange with no seeds!

 

[DotCommunist]

What's a jaffa

from the seedless variety of orange, a jaffa orange


seedless=impotent

 

[weepiper]

aaaah. What the fuck does any of that have to do with whether we should vote for independence though?

 

[DairyQueen]

Not sure you can accuse the No campaign of this one. I doubt they've got editorial control over the Washington Post, and Shetlander's have been pushing for a greater share of oil revenues for a long time. Why shouldn't they use this as an opportune moment to push for a better deal?

The whole thing is just a gimmick (note: the petition is not about Shetland independence but Shetland remaining in the UK).

 

[weepiper]

Lol, just had a Better Together canvasser at the door, as I was sitting down to eat my tea. 'Sorry, I'm a Yes voter', I said to him, in the same tone of voice I use on the Jehovah's Witnesses. He looked rather disappointed.

 

[DotCommunist]

aaaah. What the fuck does any of that have to do with whether we should vote for independence though?

looks like snidey smear/humiliate tactics. Because people will deffo vote yea/nay based on salmonds virility....right....

 

[DairyQueen]

looks like snidey smear/humiliate tactics. Because people will deffo vote yea/nay based on salmonds virility....right....

Nah, Labour literally have nothing else. Oh, sorry... they've got Eddie Izzard.

 

[Quartz]

We're not being offered a reformed UK union with a higher level of devolution.

We really don't know what we are being offered by the Unionists.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

We really don't know what we are being offered by the Unionists.

307 years of historical precedent give some indication of what to expect.

 

[geminisnake]

You keep thinking the No side can't sink any lower then they prove you wrong time after time! If this is how low they go now what does June/July/August hold??

 

[DairyQueen]

You keep thinking the No side can't sink any lower then they prove you wrong time after time! If this is how low they go now what does June/July/August hold??

... or after the referendum