Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Will you vote for independence?

Scottish independence?

  • Yes please

    Votes: 99 56.6%
  • No thanks

    Votes: 57 32.6%
  • Dont know yet

    Votes: 17 9.7%

  • Total voters
    175
It doesn't mean that and we haven't been. Only the crudest of polemicists could say we have. The idea that we are ruled by the monarchy is ropey at best - their better days behind them, about 400 years.

Who owns your house/work/bus - it ain't the royals you out-dated clown. Who runs the UK-the royals! :D

You are a fucking gullible idiot. Again.
where did I say the monarchy?

it'd help if you learned to read.

Who's our prime minster? Is he a member of the aristocracy? What about the mayor of London, the chancellor? etc.

Who owns the majority of the land in the UK? The aristocracy.

etc

You're actually proving the author of that pieces point if you as a well read left winger don''t even get this.
 
Lord:

I think he's mostly referring to the idea that much of the English aristocracy is still descended from those who came across with the Norman conquest in 1066, which there is some truth to as the aristocracy has largely intermarried throughout the time since 1066, and the heridatory rules tended to keep their lands and titles intact and in the family.

ie it's shorthand to point out that we've essentially been ruled by the same ruling elite for a millenium.
 
The challenge for the pro-Indy left has always been how could they keep the momentum up in the event of the obvious No vote.

It looks like the SSP and the Greens have cleared the first hurdle massively boosting their membership.

It will be interesting to see how they build organisation out of mobilisation
 
The challenge for the pro-Indy left has always been how could they keep the momentum up in the event of the obvious No vote.

It looks like the SSP and the Greens have cleared the first hurdle massively boosting their membership.

It will be interesting to see how they build organisation out of mobilisation

It may prove to be similar to the phenomenon of lots of people taking up gym membership just after christmas.
 
There was an excellent really informative post-referendum piece by Mark Blyth (Professor of Political Economy at Brown University. Author of Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, & Great Transformations.) on the Doug Henwood show last week - really really recommend the half hour listen. It's on itunes here (top one) and if you don't do itunes it'll be here soon. Oh hang on, can listen to it now here. Honestly do have a listen.
 
Ruth Davidson has some funny ideas of what's going to happen under Nicola Sturgeon as leader of the SNP :D

"With all these fired up new members, she'll be locking horns with Labour, and they'll be trying to outflank each other to demonstrate a kind of socialist machismo, elbowing each other aside to lay claim to the collectivist crown"

I wish, frankly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29428818
 
There was an excellent really informative post-referendum piece by Mark Blyth (Professor of Political Economy at Brown University. Author of Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, & Great Transformations.) on the Doug Henwood show last week - really really recommend the half hour listen. It's on itunes here (top one) and if you don't do itunes it'll be here soon. Oh hang on, can listen to it now here. Honestly do have a listen.
Cheers, I've got it lined up on the ipod.

Do we have a "politics/current affairs podcast recommendation thread", btw?
 
Putting this here because this is where the discussion of using the electoral register to chase old poll tax debts has been, although I thought about a new thread for it.

Salmond announced yesterday that the Scottish Government is going to amend laws to stop councils doing this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29461008

Here he is brutally skewering the Tory leader of Aberdeenshire council live on air this morning. From about 7 minutes onwards particularly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p027v2p8
 
There was an excellent really informative post-referendum piece by Mark Blyth (Professor of Political Economy at Brown University. Author of Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, & Great Transformations.) on the Doug Henwood show last week - really really recommend the half hour listen. It's on itunes here (top one) and if you don't do itunes it'll be here soon. Oh hang on, can listen to it now here. Honestly do have a listen.
Listened to this yesterday, was interesting. Thanks for posting.
 
Putting this here because this is where the discussion of using the electoral register to chase old poll tax debts has been, although I thought about a new thread for it.

Salmond announced yesterday that the Scottish Government is going to amend laws to stop councils doing this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29461008

Here he is brutally skewering the Tory leader of Aberdeenshire council live on air this morning. From about 7 minutes onwards particularly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p027v2p8
look at the Labour MSPs' body language while he was announcing it btw

BzAgnDoIUAAowL9.jpg:large
 
Me for one. Boris voting cunts

London and the Home Counties. I can't get to sleep having found friends I am staying with have turned into savage UKIP little englanders. How did I miss this? Jesus fucking Christ. They were decent people. Is this a disease? I'm off to learn German. Fuck this middle England bullshit, moaning about the rule of Brussels and ignoring the whoring out of the body corporate to all and sundry. Found more civic sense in Glasgow two weeks ago only to come back to this cuntishness. Fuck it, been an emigrant once, time to do it again. Fuck.
 
London and the Home Counties. I can't get to sleep having found friends I am staying with have turned into savage UKIP little englanders. How did I miss this? Jesus fucking Christ. They were decent people. Is this a disease? I'm off to learn German. Fuck this middle England bullshit, moaning about the rule of Brussels and ignoring the whoring out of the body corporate to all and sundry. Found more civic sense in Glasgow two weeks ago only to come back to this cuntishness. Fuck it, been an emigrant once, time to do it again. Fuck.
Come to Scotland, you know you want to.
 


They've been holding off on announcing a venue until they'd sold a certain number of tickets, to get an idea of what size they might need: the Clyde Auditorium holds 3000.
 
There was an excellent really informative post-referendum piece by Mark Blyth (Professor of Political Economy at Brown University. Author of Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, & Great Transformations.) on the Doug Henwood show last week - really really recommend the half hour listen. It's on itunes here (top one) and if you don't do itunes it'll be here soon. Oh hang on, can listen to it now here. Honestly do have a listen.

I finally got round to listening to that podcast. I’m afraid it wasn’t very interesting or insightful, or anything new. It’s exactly what we’ve been hearing from commentators gravitating towards the Labour left (such as it is) in Scotland for years.

A clue to how his analysis was skewed could be found towards the end of the piece in his admission that he’d have voted No (with some regrets) and then (somewhat reluctantly) Labour in the GE next year (but would come to regret that) if he still lived in Scotland.

Not that I disagreed with many of his impressions, broad brush though they often were, but that I think he was actually wrong about some of the stuff you wouldn’t have expected him to be wrong about, as an economics lecturer. And in his fundamental strategic inclinations, I think we is just plain wrong.

As an example of the former point - the economic inaccuracies - he describes the Barnet formula in broad strokes as money Holyrood (previously St Andrew’s House, prior to devolution) is granted by Westminster. He returns to that a few times, using it to make several points. Now, it’s true that that is a widespread belief, but it isn’t the whole picture. It doesn’t take into account the fact that more money travels from the polity of Scotland to Westminster in revenues than returns as Barnet. He much later briefly corrects that impression (contradicting his previous points), only to in the same breath get the situation of London wrong. (As I’ve discussed in detail elsewhere in the past, London is heavily subsidised by the rest of the UK in ways that aren’t included in the balance sheets).

I agree with him that the SNP is problematic and contradictory. But he is seriously out of date in some of his assessments. He seems to confuse SNP voters with the SNP itself, which does rather undermine some of his assumptions. It’s true that there are rural conservatives who vote SNP (although he completely avoids the issue of, and therefore seems to make the mistake of, thinking all rural dwellers are Tory-inclined farmers and landowners: there is a huge rural poverty issue, with associated bad housing conditions etc, and a large number of people who are neither landowners nor wealthy, and in poorly paid, unstable, insecure, and part time/ short term employment, or out of work), but those rural SNP-voting heartlands in the rural North East are also areas where those same voters voted No.

There is one major SNP figure who fits his description, in the person of Mike Russell, the (rather bizarre) free-marketeer, who wants Scotland to be a low wage economy, but he is very much on his own in that, and his views about an independent Scotland are besides the point that Mark Blythe makes, because the rural conservatives who might be supposed to support Russell’s version of Scottish independence don’t support Scottish independence; they voted No.

Furthermore, Russell’s vision was not that laid out in the White Paper. We wouldn’t have been getting Russell’s version of independence, although I could foresee him setting up a right of centre party in an independent Scotland. (This has been discussed in the thread).

As for the effects of MU; we’ve done that to death. I personally think an independent Scotland should have a separate Scottish currency, and a separate central bank (although without the powers to set interest rates etc that the BofE has: government should retain those directly).

The SNP strategy was to suggest there’d be as little change as possible (which begs the question “why bother, then?”); this was an electoral strategy. But I strongly suspect also that MU was only a short term economic policy prior to setting up a separate currency, designed to have the effect of mitigating/diminishing currency speculation in the event of independence (which is why they couldn’t announce that that was the aim). But we’ve been through all this in the thread, and the effects thereof.

In short, I think Blythe is mistaken about much of what he thinks would ensue, not least because he appears misinformed about some of what the SNP’s policies were.

He is also rather contradictory. On the one hand he uses Ireland as an outcome, and on the other hand says the SNP’s Scotland wouldn’t have been like Ireland.

He also both grasps and misses the point that many of us were not voting Yes in support of the SNP, but in support of what could be achieved that cannot be achieved within the UK system, with all that the UK state, establishment and political system implies. It was a starting point, not an endpoint. He also fails to address why it is flirting with nationalism to want to imagine something different from the UK establishment, but not nationalist to want to retain the British state intact. Especially since he agrees that the way things are is deeply unsatisfactory. He has nothing to offer us that Keeping Britain Whole achieves. He just supports the No outcome out of some ill-defined emotional impulse. I’m afraid, Mark, that sounds very like British nationalism to me.

In the end all he offers us is the hope that the engagement of the campaign translates into electoral engagement. Well, in his own analysis, that gives us the choice of neoliberalism or neoliberalism-with-airbags. (I’d actually argue that the latter is the promise of neoliberalism-with-airbags, which is something very different. Labour in government and the LibDems in coalition both promise neoliberalism-with-airbags. I’m not so sure they deliver it).

This is the strategic stuff I think he’s wrong on. It’s a faith in electoralism that isn’t actually supported by the things he says about neoliberalism and Westminster party strategy (most of which I agree with him on). It’s an un-evidenced support for keeping the British State Whole which is based on nothing more than a dislike of nationalism, despite the fact that it is in itself nationalist, and despite the fact that he has already agreed that the Yes campaign wasn’t about nationalism, but about getting away from austerity and neoliberalism.

All of this – all of it – has been discussed to death in Scotland in the years leading up to September 18th, and all of it on this thread.
 
Back
Top Bottom