Will you vote for independence?

[coley]

I thought the standard of moderation was dreadful. Even worse than the last one.

Should have got our lot in, they would have both received permabanns after the first two minutes, problem sorted

 

[redsquirrel]

Anyone seriously thinking the UK is fine and dandy when we are having a referendum on independence is either brainwashed, an MP or both. To offer nothing substantive during the campaign. Fucking lunacy. Even if they win, what then? Back to the lies, resentment and right-wing politics?

And you think it's going to be different if there is a Yes vote? Sure a Yes vote provides more opportunity for pro-working class politics but it's madness to suggest that whether Scotland becomes independent or remains part of the UK the political agenda of the establishment is going to continue to be neo-liberalism. They'll still be an isolated political class combing with capital to attack the conditions of labour.

 

[gabi]

Sure it's been covered, but has it been suggested that the English have their own referendum on whether or not keep the scots?

 

[Frankie Jack]

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[danny la rouge]

Sure it's been covered, but has it been suggested that the English have their own referendum on whether or not keep the scots?

Do you think that's what this is about? That we're voting whether "to keep the English"? It's really important that you pay attention, because that isn't what it's about, not even in the slightest.

 

[JTG]

Vote to 'keep the Scots'?! I don't feel a sense of ownership over them anyway. They are welcome to choose regardless of views in England

 

[redsquirrel]

This is a good example of one the opportunities I mentioned above, the RIC and independence (if it goes through) will give us possibilities for action on both sides of the border. But we have to be ready to use these possibilities and fight, as always capital will attempt to use independence to it's own advantage.

 

[danny la rouge]

This is a good example of one the opportunities I mentioned above, the RIC and independence (if it goes through) will give us possibilities for action on both sides of the border. But we have to be ready to use these possibilities and fight, as always capital will attempt to use independence to it's own advantage.

Exactly.

What it gives us is an opportunity. Supporting No doesn't even do that. It says: "carry on with your austerity agenda".

 

[ddraig]

sorry about our first minister
he is becoming more and more of an embarrassment recently what with his weak response to letters on Gaza and now this
so much for "clear red water"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-28927091

'Peril'
Carwyn Jones said he did not want Scotland to leave the UK but would respect a Yes vote and Wales and Scotland would "remain friends".

But he added: "If Scotland decides it does not want to share in our union, then Scotland cannot expect to share in the institutions of the union.

"I would strongly oppose the idea of a currency union with an independent Scotland because I believe it would be bad for Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom."

He recalled the banking crash when swift decisions were needed with "speed and sureness".

"As Welsh First Minister I do not see why in similar circumstances I would have to wait around for the finance secretary of what would then be another country to make up his or her mind while the economy of Wales was in peril," he said.

"Political divorce isn't the answer," he wrote.

 

[danny la rouge]

By Colin Fox, national spokesman of the Scottish Socialist Party

I missed the last live TV debate where Alex Salmond was said to have ‘under-performed’, I was on holiday. But there can surely be no doubt he won this “return leg” hands down. His naturally combatitive style had returned, walking out from behind the lecturn, his script was dotted with upbeat references to “this extraordinary time . . . this golden oportunity for the people of Scotland . . . best placed to make the right decisions . . . and a hugely exciting and energising campaign”.

In contast Alistair Darling’s remarks were noted above all for their timidity, their caution and risk averse emphasis. He mentioned “threats”, “costs”, “gambles”, “volatility” and “insecurities” but failed to offer a positive vision. More alarmingly perhaps for Better Together strategists the former Chancellor was also rather gaffe-prone. He conceded ‘Of course Scotland can use the pound’. And he made the mistake of returning once too often to the currency issue leading Salmond to accuse him of being a ‘one- trick pony’. The audience at Kelvingrove Museum and viewers around the country seemed to groan in unison. But in conceeding ‘This [referendum] is not about him [Alex Salmond]’ he has blunted the instrument which No activists have been using above all others to tell Labour voters in particular that this referendum is in fact ‘all about Alex Salmond’.

The polls will reveal in due course whether this second live TV debate has changed people’s minds, but it has certainly put a spring in the step of Yes campaigners with three weeks to go.

 

[marty21]

I find it amazing that Cameron has played such a marginal role in the debate, he will get the blame if the vote is yes , yet appears to be not getting involved.

 

[danny la rouge]

I find it amazing that Cameron has played such a marginal role in the debate, he will get the blame if the vote is yes , yet appears to be not getting involved.

He is involved from the sidelines. But in a way that backfires on him. He's handled the whole thing very badly.

If No wins, it'll be despite the campaign Better Together has put up.

 

[danny la rouge]

Salmond challenges Cameron

“Alistair Darling is a front man for the Conservative party in this campaign,” Mr Salmond said.

"Now that Alistair Darling is taking part in no further debates, let’s have the real leader of the No campaign, David Cameron, let’s have him in Scotland now".

Scotsman

 

[Frankie Jack]

Link not working for me.

 

[danny la rouge]

Link not working for me.

Apologies.

Try this: http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/scottish-independence-salmond-challenges-cameron-1-3520836

 

[Quartz]

Salmond's being stupid: Cameron's one of the best assets Yes has.

 

[DotCommunist]

 

[Frankie Jack]

Got it now dlr.

 

[danny la rouge]

Salmond's being stupid: Cameron's one of the best assets Yes has.

He's doing two things:

1). Saying Darling was Cameron's second. This paints Darling as a Tory stooge, and underlines the risks of the Union: austerity, privatisation, Welfare cuts etc.

2). Reminding the voters that Cameron is one of Yes's best assets.

 

[DotCommunist]

or should that be

 

[Frankie Jack]

Awful but funny dc.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Full debate. Salmond v Darling.
A bit fuzzy.

 

[weepiper]

Cameron will never debate Salmond because he knows he's deeply unpopular up here. It would be handing Yes a win on a plate. He knows it, Salmond knows it. Win win for Salmond doing the 'mon then'.

 

[weepiper]

The Evening News survey – conducted via social media and not a scientific poll – suggested undecided voters had moved to Yes as a result of the debate. Asked about their voting intentions before the debate, 51.8 per cent said Yes, 28.7 per cent No, with 19.4 per cent undecided. After the debate, 66.2 per cent opted for Yes, 30 per cent No with just 3.7 per cent still undecided.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...endence-darling-flounders-in-debate-1-3520547

Usual caveats about polls etc

 

[weepiper]

Speaking to my work colleague today who up until a few weeks ago had been a No but has since turned from wavering to a firm Yes about the debate last night. I quote: 'I fucking hate Alex Salmond. Can't stand the man. But he won that hands down and the whole thing now makes me really want a Yes to happen because it would be a massive two fingers up to Westminster'.

 

[weepiper]

 

[DairyQueen]

#PatronisingBTLady

 

[weltweit]

Speaking to my work colleague today who up until a few weeks ago had been a No but has since turned from wavering to a firm Yes about the debate last night. I quote: 'I fucking hate Alex Salmond. Can't stand the man. But he won that hands down and the whole thing now makes me really want a Yes to happen because it would be a massive two fingers up to Westminster'.

I am not sure that is a wise motivation for voting yes. Yes it will piss off Westminster, but then people will have a long time to live with that choice made on such a silly reason.

 

[weepiper]

I am not sure that is a wise motivation for voting yes. Yes it will piss off Westminster, but then people will have a long time to live with that choice made on such a silly reason.

It's not about 'pissing Westminster off' but about saying 'screw you and your rubbish 'choices', we want something else'.