Will you vote for independence?

[danny la rouge]

Darling fell apart at several points. He looked rattled. It was almost as if he thinks the Union is lost.

Not that it's about the two of them.

 

[DexterTCN]

Salmond won that hands down. No doubt we will get another poll telling us how great Darling is. Well, at least it was videoed. Hopefully, our descendants will, at some point, realise how fucking rotten politics are in 21st century Britain.

The Guardian Live scores it...

Salmond’s final statement was sound, but not scintillating. Darling’s sounded a bit desperate, but a bit more memorable. It was probably a teeny bit more convincing.

Darling

 

[DairyQueen]

have to wait on the exit polls, last one was ICM and had Darling Darling as the winner

This time it is ComRes. I am not optimistic.

 

[DairyQueen]

The Guardian Live scores it...



Darling

God, that's fucking awful. Civilised my arse weltweit. This is not democratic.

 

[weltweit]

God, that's fucking awful. Civilised my arse weltweit. This is not democratic.

You are going to have a vote, you just had the second of two televised debates in which the yes campaign had by far the better natural debater, you have had a massive campaign over many months, what is uncivilised about that?

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Guardian/ICM scored it thusly

BREAKING: Guardian/ICM poll Salmond – 71% Darling – 29% Sample 500+

 

[DairyQueen]

Well fuck this.

 

[8ball]

Well fuck this

 

[DotCommunist]

Guardian/ICM scored it thusly

oof!

 

[DotCommunist]

You're joking?

Tom Clark writes:

Alex Salmond emerged as the clear winner of the second Scottish independence debate, besting Alistair Darling by a 71% to 29% margin, according to an instant Guardian/ICM poll of Scots who had watched the debate.

Salmond will be delighted to decisively overturn the verdict in the first round, in which a similar ICM poll found Alistair Darling had won by 56% to 44%.

The headline figures exclude viewers who say they don’t know who won the debate, with these included the figures are 65% for Salmond, 26% for 9% who were not sure

 

[Quartz]

Guardian/ICM scored it thusly

Edit - misread.

 

[DotCommunist]

deffo NHS and nukes, bedroom tax and cuts in general that swung it imo.

darling didn't help himself banging the currency drum again

 

[weltweit]

Salmond definitely won the debate, he is a better debater, but I am not sure he won the argument which does not involve talking over people or walking round the lectern. Anyhow, the vote is what matters.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

The don't know breakdown, via Dan Sabbagh

Guardian/ICM, including don't knows was 65% for Salmond, 26% for Darling 9% not sure. Strip out DKs gives you 71/29 to Salmond

 

[Quartz]

Funny how people are accepting the poll this time around but didn't last time. Anyway, IMO Salmond won this round.

 

[Sue]

Edit - misread.

Way. I was just disappointed no one asked what would happen if the referendum ended in a draw...

 

[DotCommunist]

Salmond definitely won the debate, he is a better debater, but I am not sure he won the argument which does not involve talking over people or walking round the lectern. Anyhow, the vote is what matters.

they both talked over each other, thats what politicos do.

the only reason darling didn't come out from behind the pulpit was because he hadn't shaken properly so had a little map of south africa on his trousers

 

[8ball]

Way. I was just disappointed no one asked what would happen if the referendum ended in a draw...

There was one young lad and for a second I thought he was going to do exactly that.

 

[DotCommunist]

Funny how people are accepting the poll this time around but didn't last time. Anyway, IMO Salmond won this round.

i think it was only dairy queen who questioned the polls last time

 

[Quartz]

i think it was only dairy queen who questioned the polls last time

There's life outside Urban, you know.

 

[DotCommunist]

There's life outside Urban, you know.

nobody I know irl gives a shit about scots indy tho

 

[geminisnake]

Can't see that being the clincher.

You haven't got a clue have you? It has always been a bone of contention and will get a lot of people voting Yes to get rid.

 

[Quartz]

nobody I know irl gives a shit about scots indy tho

Well, you're below the Wall.

Anyway, Darling missed an open goal with the NHS. He could have said, "We in the Labour Party didn't believe Cameron when he said, 'The NHS is safe with us' and we were right, and I as a Unionist don't believe Alec when he says the same thing now.'

But he did not.

 

[DotCommunist]

to which the response would have been that under labour government 50% of of NHS services were put out to the private sector. He knew he couldn't pull that card and salmond would have savaged him if he had

 

[DairyQueen]

i think it was only dairy queen who questioned the polls last time

I cant remember criticising the last post-debate poll, I criticised the interpretation of the results. I still don't trust YouGov.

 

[8ball]

You haven't got a clue have you? It has always been a bone of contention and will get a lot of people voting Yes to get rid.

Guess we'll see in a month.

 

[DairyQueen]

So are we going to get days of press coverage about how Darling fucked it all up, how he's past his best, and how Salmond was the unlikely victor?

 

[two sheds]

Salmond making good point about BT negativity.

Well this is what I've been saying I'm glad he brought it up. All they keep saying is 'no no no' ...

 

[Quartz]

to which the response would have been that under labour government 50% of of NHS services were put out to the private sector.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the private sector.

 

[DotCommunist]

And Salmond comfortably won on having the best arguments too.

Who had the better arguments? (don’t knows included)

(Figures for last debate in brackets)

Salmond: 56% (40%)

Darling: 36% (51%)

This is a much more important measure than the previous one. Scots are not voting for Salmond or Darling on 18 September. They are voting on the basis of rival ideas.