Will you vote for independence?

[Frankie Jack]

Unfortunately yours views will be about as relevant as an irrelevant thing. No-ones gonna care about the voice of foreign citizens in our domestic affairs.

Turn the tables, do you think that my English voice will count a jot to an independent Scottish nation state. I would be about as relevant as me fight the rise of right in European nation states, I despise but other than say so I can't actually make any difference to it.

We would appreciate your support and backing much as the people down South I know will appreciate my, and others, backing in the fight against welfare reform and just maybe, with Independence, we can show that the brutalities of the policies by both the Tories and Labour in Wastemonster are seriously unjust and unnecessary.

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

We would appreciate your support and backing much as the people down South I know will appreciate my, and others, backing in the fight against welfare reform and just maybe, with Independence, we can show that the brutalities of the policies by both the Tories and Labour in Wastemonster are seriously unjust and unnecessary.

I'm with you on the disgust of UK politics and wholeheartedly support many of the reforms made by the Scottish Parliament which is more progressive and socially inclusive, no argument there.

However, your support or my support for social justice in a foreign country will be irrelevant in domestic politics. The loss of the Scottish voice will be missed in the rest of UK, we'll be poorer for it. But you can't really expect independence AND have a voice in another countries domestic affairs.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Scottish independence: 1m voters sign declaration in favour of yes vote

"[Yes Scotland boss] Blair Jenkins confirmed that Friday morning's total of 1,001,186 signatures had been checked against the electoral register".

"The Scottish electorate for September's referendum is about 4.2 million people. If turnout reaches 80%, as many – including Salmond – now confidently predict it will, this translates into 3.36m votes".

What the media seem to be missing is that 1/4 of the total electorate have bothered to sign a declaration. When has that ever happened before? Which political movement has enthused a 1/4 of the electorate to sign something like that? Can anyone name one?

It's a huge number of verified people.

According to the Electoral Management Board for Scotland (EMB), as at 1st August 2014, there are 4,166,683 registered electors on the electoral roll in Scotland.

Let's call that 4.2 million, like the Guardian. So, 29.79% of the expected turnout of 3.36m voters have already signed a declaration they'll vote Yes. If that 3.36m turnout is right, only 678,815 more Yes votes are needed on the day for a majority.

There are 3 Yes voters in this house, 2 of whom have not signed.

I was reading about this earlier and while they say they verify signatories against the electoral roll which is good, I wonder what other controls they have in place to check that the people signing up are genuine? We all know that electoral fraud is easily done due to dodgy behaviour, so it is possible that people have signed up others who they know or guess are on the roll, and who they suspect either don't bother with these sorts of online polls or petitions, or actually take the opposite view to them.

So it would be quite possible for someone in the pro-independence camp to sign up an entire street, or a nursing home, or whatever, and as long they know the names of the individuals (not difficult to find out), they could sign them up and any that were on the electoral roll and hadn't signed up themselves already would be counted. So this needs to taken with an appropriate pinch of salt with regards accuracy.

 

[Frankie Jack]

I'm with you on the disgust of UK politics and wholeheartedly support many of the reforms made by the Scottish Parliament which it's more progressive and socially inclusive, no argument there.

However, your support or my support for social justice in a foreign country will be irrelevant in domestic politics. The loss of the Scottish voice will be missed in the rest of UK, we'll be poorer for it. But you can't really expect independence AND have a voice in another countries domestic affairs.

I don't want a voice in Wastemonsters affairs in the event of a Yes vote. I don't have much/any now to be honest. I will have the ability to share info then as I do now to the people who need it. I've had an interest in politics for far too long to suddenly switch off from what will be happening in HoP and concentrate on Scottish affairs only.

The same political preferred news will still land in my inbox to be talked about and picked apart. While others may look at the NHS, TTIP, fracking etc. I tend to concentrate on Welfare. I keep a wee beedy eye on other countries policies in that regard too looking for warnings and similarities.

As I said, we're not going anywhere. Much as I'd like Scotland to float down somehwere Southerly for a tad warmer weather for a few more weeks of the year.

So unless the internet is shut off from us, the rants and sharing of info will continue.

 

[Frankie Jack]

I was reading about this earlier and while they say they verify signatories against the electoral roll which is good, I wonder what other controls they have in place to check that the people signing up are genuine? We all know that electoral fraud is easily done due to dodgy behaviour, so it is possible that people have signed up others who they know or guess are on the roll, and who they suspect either don't bother with these sorts of online polls or petitions, or actually take the opposite view to them.

So it would be quite possible for someone in the pro-independence camp to sign up an entire street, or a nursing home, or whatever, and as long they know the names of the individuals (not difficult to find out), they could sign them up and any that were on the electoral roll and hadn't signed up themselves already would be counted. So this needs to taken with an appropriate pinch of salt with regards accuracy.

IP adressess checked too for the online signings perhaps? 55 signatories from the one pooter would throw up a flag. Bit difficult to falsify on the paper ones, unless there was a wee army of people going around all the events where they could sign in different names.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

IP adressess checked too for the online signings perhaps? 55 signatories from the one pooter would throw up a flag. Bit difficult to falsify on the paper ones, unless there was a wee army of people going around all the events where they could sign in different names.

I'm talking about the online version rather than a paper version, although that too is potentially open to fraudulent entries. But as they only say that signatories will be checked against the electoral roll, we just don't know what other, if any, checks they also carry out to maintain the integrity of the list. I suppose if they used IPs as a method of screening, this would rule out more than one signatory using a shared computer - such as in a library or my hypothetical nursing home. As ever with these things, it is difficult to ensure it is accurate without expensive ID validation systems being built in, so the only option is to treat the claimed figures with a degree of caution.

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

I don't want a voice in Wastemonsters affairs in the event of a Yes vote. I don't have much/any now to be honest.

Your elected politicians have more than ours right now. They get to vote on Scottish AND British matters (on policies that no not affect Scottish policies, laws etc.)

So unless the internet is shut off from us, the rants and sharing of info will continue.

We'll see after the yes vote. You'll probably still have dial up

 

[farmerbarleymow]

<snip>

We'll see after the yes vote. You'll probably still have dial up

Actually, do the cables connecting Scotland to the internet run through England?

 

[Frankie Jack]

Your elected politicians have more than ours right now. They get to vote on Scottish AND British matters (on policies that no not affect Scottish policies, laws etc.)

They are pretty shit Scot Lab politicians though. Doyle, Sarwar, Curran,
Brown, Darling, Murphy, Davidson, Gilmour, McGuire etc. They'll either be gone/retired, vying for Southern seats or in the HoL after a Yes vote along with a fair few Scot LimpDumbs

We'll see after the yes vote. You'll probably still have dial up

Feels like that at work. Massive company, well into Gov coffers for profit. 230 seconds to load Google on IE and another 200+ secs or so to load the page needed ffs..

 

[Frankie Jack]

Actually, do the cables connecting Scotland to the internet run through England?

Don't even think about it fbm..

 

[danny la rouge]

I was reading about this earlier and while they say they verify signatories against the electoral roll which is good, I wonder what other controls they have in place to check that the people signing up are genuine?

You'd need to ask, but I do know that you enter your email, and get sent a message to that email address. Duplicates are disregarded. If you were doing multiple signatures, you'd need multiple email addresses etc.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but it'd be a bit of a trauchle.

 

[Quartz]

You'd need to ask, but I do know that you enter your email, and get sent a message to that email address. Duplicates are disregarded. If you were doing multiple signatures, you'd need multiple email addresses etc.

Unfortunately it's a trivial task for anyone who has a domain with catch-all forwarding. But I doubt there's significant fakery going on (there's always 1 or 2 idiots) and expect that over 99% of the sign-ups are genuine.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

You'd need to ask, but I do know that you enter your email, and get sent a message to that email address. Duplicates are disregarded. If you were doing multiple signatures, you'd need multiple email addresses etc.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but it'd be a bit of a trauchle.

I suspect it would be very easy if a group of people were determined to do it, just like what happens with electoral fraud itself, so there will be a margin of error in the claimed figures. Quite how wide that margin is is impossible to determine given what we know, but most online polls like this are unreliable because of these uncertainties.

It would be interesting if they do actually hand over the list to independent scrutiny. It was saying on the BBC that there were confidentiality concerns, but I don't know what the sites data protection policy is as I didn't bother to look for it.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Don't even think about it fbm..

Snip snip!

 

[Frankie Jack]

Snip snip!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. !!!!eleven!!!!

Besides, I've only just got an in house connection again. Don't make me go back to the dreaded 3dongle.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. !!!!eleven!!!!

Besides, I've only just got an in house connection again. Don't make me go back to the dreaded 3dongle.

Even mobile broadband would be routed through cables somewhere, and those cables would run through England to connect to the main nodes onto the web. There's no escape - vote for independence and your internet will be back in the form of smoke signals.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Even mobile broadband would be routed through cables somewhere, and those cables would run through England to connect to the main nodes onto the web. There's no escape - vote for independence and your internet will be back in the form of smoke signals.

Good job I'm a rollup fiend then. May be a problem when it's a bit windy though. Small smoke rings aimed at Edinburgh may mean something completely different when blown into Cs and floating over Ayr..

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Good job I'm a rollup fiend then. May be a problem when it's a bit windy though. Small smoke rings aimed at Edinburgh may mean something completely different when blown into Cs and floating over Ayr..

Imagine how many years it would take you to transmit the data for one webpage though!

 

[Frankie Jack]

Imagine how many years it would take you to transmit the data for one webpage though!

Indeed. Realistically I might only manage a 'Halp'

 

[two sheds]

Even mobile broadband would be routed through cables somewhere, and those cables would run through England to connect to the main nodes onto the web. There's no escape - vote for independence and your internet will be back in the form of smoke signals.

True that, and Scotland also needs to watch out in case Westminster unilaterally redefines the border so that lots of Scottish oil becomes English oil at a stroke. Oh wait ....

 

[danny la rouge]

Even mobile broadband would be routed through cables somewhere, and those cables would run through England to connect to the main nodes onto the web. There's no escape - vote for independence and your internet will be back in the form of smoke signals.

But, it's wireless, isn't it?

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I think there's two undersea cables from Scotland that terminate outside the UK - one to the Faroes and one to Iceland. Iceland is well-connected so we'd still have internet access.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Murphy and Greatrex deefied in Blan'ur and howfed fae Asda anaw.

 

[Quartz]

Two bits of data:

I met with an ex-colleague today, a native Aberdonian. He and his whole family will be voting No. They're very worried about the short term future should Scotland vote Yes, with particular reference to property prices but also the whole independence manifesto in general. He agreed with me that the vote would be very close. He also fears that the SNP will not respect a No vote.

Another ex-colleague is an enthusiastic Yes supporter, but will not proselytise: she respects the right of people to make up their own minds.

 

[Frankie Jack]

<snip> He also fears that the SNP will not respect a No vote.
<snip>

What? Cannot fathom what that the hell he's on about.

 

[two sheds]

They're very worried about the short term future should Scotland vote Yes, with particular reference to property prices

Drop in property prices would surely be a good thing. They're insane and stopping young people particularly from getting their own place.

 

[Quartz]

What? Cannot fathom what that the hell he's on about.

I did not press.

 

[danny la rouge]

He also fears that the SNP will not respect a No vote.

That's twice you've passed on comments to that effect.

What does "will not respect" mean? Will make disparaging remarks about? Will proclaim independence anyway, perhaps with military backing?

Or just: will continue to hold the view that Scotland should eventually become independent?

 

[danny la rouge]

Drop in property prices would surely be a good thing. They're insane and stopping young people particularly from getting their own place.

Especially in Aberdeen. Unless you have a portfolio there (which I suspect is the implication here).

Anyway, I think it's a mistaken belief. I'd expect a property price rise, concentrated in Edinburgh. (Top tip, property gamblers). But prices in Aberdeen won't drop due to independence: the oil industry will still be there.

 

[danny la rouge]

Murphy and Greatrex deefied in Blan'ur and howfed fae Asda anaw.

My Dad's from Blantyre.