Will you vote for independence?

[DexterTCN]

Waterstones are selling many of the independence debate books at half price. I've just picked up two of the yes/no books.

What are they called?

 

[Quartz]

The first is 'Scottish Independence' by George Kerevan and Alan Cochrane, the second is 'Scotland's Referendum, A guide for voters' by Jamie Maxwell and David Torrance.

 

[DexterTCN]

Cool. Can I get the two halves you don't read?

 

[Quartz]

Cool. Can I get the two halves you don't read?

Sorry, I'll be reading them cover to cover.

 

[Quartz]

I'll finish 'How to Manage Your Slaves' (it's about Roman slavery) tomorrow and then start on one of them.

 

[Quartz]

I've emailed the BBC about attending the next debate.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'll finish 'How to Manage Your Slaves' (it's about Roman slavery) tomorrow and then start on one of them.

how apt for a unionist

 

[redsquirrel]

New Survation poll tonight. Full thing here http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Post-Independence-Debate-Poll-tables.pdf

Headline figures from their twitter feed:

Just a bit more on this, it's worth pointing out that Survation is one of the three companies that tend give higher 'Yes' support.

 

[Supine]

I'm really surprised how many people on this poll have voted yes

 

[DairyQueen]

Really? I've not read them suggest anything similar. Indeed, BT are proposing more devolution.

http://www.holyrood.com/2013/09/burnham-sets-out-vision-for-whole-person-service/
http://news.stv.tv/politics/241271-ukip-launch-their-manifesto/

there is more...

 

[DairyQueen]

'Scottish Independence' by George Kerevan and Alan Cochrane

Alan Cochrane. You're reading Alan Cochrane. The only reason I would read that guy's ramblings would be to analyse the far-right. Or to predict where Alex Massie's career is going.

 

[DairyQueen]

I'm really surprised how many people on this poll have voted yes

You're really surprised you're an idiot?

 

[Supine]

You're really surprised you're an idiot.

I'm pretty sure I'm not an idiot. Thanks for the character assassination

 

[Quartz]

'Scottish Independence' by George Kerevan and Alan Cochrane

Alan Cochrane. You're reading Alan Cochrane. The only reason I would read that guy's ramblings would be to analyse the far-right. Or to predict where Alex Massie's career is going.

I believe in freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And if I don't know what they're saying, how can I tell them they're wrong?

 

[Quartz]

You're really surprised you're an idiot?

Do you really think you're going to win votes with comments like that?

 

[DairyQueen]

I believe in freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And if I don't know what they're saying, how can I tell them they're wrong?

What? Where did I say he was not entitled to his opinion or that you should not read Cochrane? I would not buy his book.

 

[Quartz]

I've just read the prologue of George Kerevan's argument and so far it's a load of shit. He criticises short-termism, but that's a by-product of the political. He criticises the casino economics of the stock exchange, but a Scottish stock exchange would be the same. He criticises the domination of London, but Edinburgh and the Central Belt similarly dominate Scotland. He says 'Salmond is offering a British Confederation' which is simply not true. And there's a gratuitous slam of 'as a parochial Little Britain'.

I hope the rest is better.

 

[DairyQueen]

Thanks for that insight Quartz. You don't like an SNP politician? Oh wow, that's a surprise. Please tell us more about why you don't like him because I am so stunned by this revelation. I am sure Cochrane will be much better.

EDIT: Central belt will dominate Scotland? You do realise over 70% of Scotland's population lives in the central lowlands?

 

[DairyQueen]

I'm pretty sure I'm not an idiot. Thanks for the character assassination

Sorry Supine but, seriously, what was the point in saying that (the thing about the poll on this thread)?

 

[gosub]

Salmond in the Herald Gybing from here on would look less like a master yachtsman and more like the after effects of having run aground.

 

[DairyQueen]

Eh? Is this thread really going to resort to the Alex Salmond bullshit that is prevalent in all comment sections of English media?

 

[gosub]

An Independent Scotland was deliverable, but Yes needed to gybe. The First Minister's article makes it look like they aren't going to.

 

[Supine]

Sorry Supine but, seriously, what was the point in saying that (the thing about the poll on this thread)?

The point of me saying I'm suprised? I said it because it's a statement of fact and this is an internet discussion forum. Sorry it didn't achieve the quality of input your looking for...

 

[weltweit]

I received an email apology from Stv that they failed to deliver coverage of the debate.

Lots of excuses, I suppose they didn't see that many had found alternate feeds courtesy of a poster on this thread.

 

[DairyQueen]

An Independent Scotland was deliverable, but Yes needed to gybe. The First Minister's article makes it look like they aren't going to.

I just don't agree. I think there is overwhelming media bias. I posted before, and we can discuss rationally. The media coverage of the referendum has been scandalous, most Scottish newspapers are owned and edited by Fleet Street. The Daily Record, which the Guardian claimed is a Scottish paper to justify its own biased coverage, is owned by Trinity mirror group. Fleet Street have now gone on overdrive. I mean they've gone totally loopy. They hate Salmond and that is one of two things driving their editorial lines.

 

[gosub]

What, more than anything, shapes UK fiscal policy is London. Where the cheapest flat costs at least £400,000. An independant Scotland could have far better tailored fiscal policy if it detached itself from that. Instead Salmond has lashed himself to the pound.

 

[DairyQueen]

Salmond has nothing to do with this. The Scottish Government has set out its position, they want a formal currency union. This is much more to do with the fact they are wanting an equal share of assets and liabilities. Salmond has written a column in the Herald in which this is explained. Scotland would not be liable for any of the debt held by the Bank of England if it is barred from all of its assets. See how much coverage that will get in the press.

 

[gosub]

he's not saying anything that hasn't been said before, repeatly, since Feb.


I can't see how you would divvy out the CDS anyway tbh.

 

[DairyQueen]

Neither are the Unionists. All this shit about the currency is not new, yet we get fucktons of coverage of 'a lack of a plan B'. There is a plan B, C, D. The Scottish Government position in the negotiations is a sensible one.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5372/economics/uk-debt-held-by-bank-of-england/

The Bank of England have purchased £325 bn of asset purchases, which are financed by issuing created reserves. Of these £325bn of assets, the vast majority are government gilts (bonds).

The government’s net public sector debt is currently £1022.5 billion. Therefore, roughly 25-30% of public sector debt is held by the Bank of England as asset purchases. Q.E. at Bank of England

What the Unionists are arguing is that 325bn is entirely a rUK liability (not to mention other 'assets' which we are presumably not entitled to, and their associated liabilities).

 

[gosub]

Yep, and they've issued quite a lot more debt since this all came out at the beginning of the year. Gilt auctions . Not only that, they have insured the debt, with lower default premiums than Germany has. For all Salmond's bluster and wanting to change the terms its been quite buoyant.