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Will you vote for independence?

Scottish independence?

  • Yes please

    Votes: 99 56.6%
  • No thanks

    Votes: 57 32.6%
  • Dont know yet

    Votes: 17 9.7%

  • Total voters
    175
Yes. Collectively, not individually.
I disapprove of the concept of collective responsibility. But in any case, you are misapplying it; it is not supposed to include people who have actively opposed the actions of a wrongdoer, only those who have tolerated those actions with their silence.



Yes. It's part of being a democracy. We agree to respect the wishes of the majority, even when we don't like them.
You are mistaken about the implications of opposing something that is nevertheless carried out.



Unlawful acts are subject to the courts and it's the juries - i.e. the people - that pass verdict.
You are conflating several different concepts here.
 
Furthermore, in Britain we are royal subjects, and the parliament act on behalf of the queen.

The Crown and the actual physical her maj are kind of two separate things. It's really the Cabinet under the control of a PM who can command the Commons that is sovereign. It acts in the name of the legal construct that is the Crown. Also, there are only a very few remaining British subjects (it involves elderly people from the Republic of Ireland who decided to remain British way back when), we're mostly actual proper citizens now.

Lizzie does not need to abide by popular wishes.

She personally doesn't need to abide by any laws at all, in theory, being the Fount of Justice and that. But that's just a construct too. It's all a bit metaphysical to be honest.
 
I disapprove of the concept of collective responsibility. But in any case, you are misapplying it; it is not supposed to include people who have actively opposed the actions of a wrongdoer, only those who have tolerated those actions with their silence.

Except that we are not talking about actions that are wrong but actions with which we disagree. There's a difference.
 
The Crown and the actual physical her maj are kind of two separate things.
Yes, "The Crown" is the state. It stems from the notion that sovereignty emanates from the monarch, though, so the actual physical Majesty is required in order to give it the Magic. Sovereignty is bestowed upon the Crown-in-Parliament by her Royal Person. Just by her Existing, really. It's all very odd.

It's really the Cabinet under the control of a PM who can command the Commons that is sovereign.
Not according to Erskine May, funnily enough. Sovereignty and power are two different things. Power resides in the government, which is led by the cabinet. We talk of the sovereignty of parliament, not of government. (Not all of parliament is government).
 
Feel free to go and live in a country like North Korea, which really does have a dictator you can blame. Or should we all be bowing to you?
You've got the etiquette wrong here, too. DairyQueen referred you to Nixon, who actually was impeached. You're supposed to use that line on people who disagree with the policies of a not-yet-impeached president. Also, DairyQueen doesn't live in America.
 
Darling says tourists won't come to Scotland if it's independent. Or something. Not sure exactly what he is saying.

Darling: being part of Brand Britain is major benefit to Scotland's tourism industry
He sloped in to the 'posh parts' of Loch Lomond area again. That must be the third or fourth time and no one knew till just the morning before or in the media later. Serious unseen NO camp here. Jackie Baillie stall at the Summer events no doubt. Surprising amounts of Yes Windows around. :thumbs:
 
Anyway... new poll out. TNS... It shows No down -1, Yes staying the same. It is probably good in light of the YouGov poll. But bad in the sense that Yes is not making significant ground. With Survation out as well, it does look like Yes is holding up.

So I am going to be optimistic.

The latest TNS survey reveals that 28 per cent of people who backed Labour in the 2011 Holyrood election plan to vote Yes in September's referendum, excluding those who are unsure. The figure is up from 21 per cent, on average, over the previous three months, when Labour "don't-knows" are stripped out.

TNS's findings also suggest the race is becoming closer after a period when the Yes campaign failed to eat into the No camp's lead. The poll put No on 56 per cent and Yes on 44 per cent, when the don't-knows were excluded.
 
The results on the thread poll looks very similar to local canvas polls I see people posting on Twitter/FB. A few similar to recent polls too but not many.

I'm thinking 60%+ for Yes.
 
Nice try, but it was you who misapplied the notion of Collective Responsibility, not me! It isn't appropriate here.

Umm... no. It was not I who tried to mix the two. We are all responsible for the actions of HMG. And it's up to us to convince enough people to vote the buggers out when we don't like what they do.

You've got the etiquette wrong here, too. DairyQueen referred you to Nixon, who actually was impeached.

I completely missed that reference. And even if I'd caught it, impeachment in America is now pretty meaningless as each side talks about how they would impeach the other's President.
 
Umm... no. It was not I who tried to mix the two.
You introduced the notion to the discussion. It's not a concept I'd use, certainly not in its usual sense.

Furthermore, I suggest you are misapplying it. It is not applied when people do something, but when they do nothing. You are suggesting people are responsible for something they oppose even if they have actively taken steps against it.

So we have 2 areas of disagreement.

1. Definition. That isn't what "collective responsibility" means.

2. I dislike the concept anyway, in that I am skeptical that a distinction between individual and group responsibility is useful. For practical purposes, people should be responsible for their own individual actions or omissions, no matter whether they were acting alone or in a group.

We are all responsible for the actions of HMG.
I disagree.


Edited to sort out tags. (I was on my phone)
 
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Conservative MP Rory Stewart is making a cairn on the border to symbolize something. Cairns are not usually built by ordering a dump truck full of slate.
 
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Conservative MP Rory Stewart is making a cairn on the border to symbolize something. Cairns are not usually built by ordering a dump truck full of slate.
No, indeed. A cairn is not usually slate for one, but more importantly, the tradition is that each participant carries one stone to the site (usually a mountain top).

Is this guy faking a mass movement?
 
No, indeed. A cairn is not usually slate for one, but more importantly, the tradition is that each participant carries one stone to the site (usually a mountain top).

Is this guy faking a mass movement?

He wanted people to join hands across the border, except where he'd planned it wasn't the border iirc. So now he's planning a cairn. Apparently you can donate £20 or so to have a stone put on the cairn for you. Aye ok then :rolleyes:
The whole BT thing has been fake. If there's so much grass roots support why are they shipping youngsters in from England for leaflet drops? Why do you see the same faces at all the events?
 
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