Wikileaks - It's time to open the archives
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Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
what's amazing about all this is that so far they've only released a few hundred of the few hundred thousand documents - I wonder what else there is?!
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Define evidence of? Are they saying he came in without using a passport seen by customs?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Indeed and what else they have which target other areas?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Indeed and what else they have which target other areas?
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
That's what I'd have thought (or not using his own passport at least), tho I can't find any more detail.
xes
F.O.A.D
Not the first time I've read about wikileaks and selling the leaks. No idea how much truth there is to any of it, but then, just how legit is this whole situation? Could be entirely fabricated for any number of reasons. I know, in principle I'm well behind the leaks, but I do have a little voice in the back of my head asking arkward question.
Will2403
Active Member
Selling the information back to the yanks without releasing it, or just raising funds through donations?
The focus on Wikileaks and not the information is because so far the info hasn't be as earth shattering as had been expected or predicted. As well as the submissive media not wanting to focus on the stronger elements of the material. However there's still plenty of it to come and I think the information may well keep getting topped, there's still another 5 months of it.
If people are donating to Wikileaks, I don't see what the problem is, I'd rather those people are enriched if their intention is to keep fighting against American imperialism. I guess the problem is we don't know their intentions, but so far Bradley Manning and it looks like JA have sacrificed their freedom to give us this info, so the other guys involved are more than welcome to have the money because they are taking massive risks.
The focus on Wikileaks and not the information is because so far the info hasn't be as earth shattering as had been expected or predicted. As well as the submissive media not wanting to focus on the stronger elements of the material. However there's still plenty of it to come and I think the information may well keep getting topped, there's still another 5 months of it.
If people are donating to Wikileaks, I don't see what the problem is, I'd rather those people are enriched if their intention is to keep fighting against American imperialism. I guess the problem is we don't know their intentions, but so far Bradley Manning and it looks like JA have sacrificed their freedom to give us this info, so the other guys involved are more than welcome to have the money because they are taking massive risks.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this has any substance to it or whether it's just sour grapes or even cunning misinformation!but the Register is running this story an interview with Cryptome operator John Young:
I reckon that blokes words should be placed in context, which is a rant of more epic proportions:
http://mail.ke in.org/pipermail/nettime-l/2010-December/002495.html (Ive broken the link just in case)
So he is equally cynical about everything else. Which is probably not the worst stance to have on these matters, although maybe a tad too much for some peoples tastes.
As for wikileaks, well Ive been critical of their hype, Assange putting himself in a position where he could be got at via stuff he did in his personal life (which was at best naive and at worst a crime against some women), him not stepping down when this legal stuff first started. I am also critical of the way they get to remain shadowy whilst also controlling what stuff is released and when. At the very least, the wiki part of their name has nothing to do with how they operate & publish stuff these days.
Hackers are also an interesting subject, generally I am extra-wary of anyone with such a background for a multitude of reasons. Ghosts in the machine have existed since long before the machines in question were computers. Hackers are right at home in a potentially high-stakes world, whether you are looking at it from the government security & intelligence service angle, or the commercial sensitivity, espionage & organised crime aspect. There is after all a very heavy overlap between these worlds, and in an information age hackers of all stripes are on the front lines. No matter what we learn from the leaks themselves, many things will remain suitably murky.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I seriously doubt that. There's been nothing so far that was a suprise to anyone.
And not all of it has been directed to the war. Some of it has been directed a China and various business enterprises.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the stuff they have on the Banksters.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
It's my understanding that some of the other "wiki"s out there have taken some heat from this and lost some of their funding, even though they have no connection whatsoever. If so, that's a shame.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I beleive the insinuation from the Cryptome man was more along the lines of them profiting from other material. eg all that we've seen is used for promotional purposes, so people know they are there. People then send them other sensitive leaked data, which they can then flog to interested third parties. If we apply this same business model to the info currently being leaked, then it would be governments other than the US that are the potential customers, either to get info in advance of the rest of the world, info that is not going to be publicly released by wikileaks. But like I said, I dont think that was the main thrust of this guys insinuation, which in any case was a broader rant about how various people & orgs hype up the value of information for profit.
Wikileaks themselves tried to raise expectations of what the leaks would reveal, via their usual self-aggrandizing hype. Who else was expecting far more earth-shattering revelations than have been the case so far? Personally what Ive seen is pretty much what I expected, but it was still really interesting stuff to me. This sort of material can be expected to contain plenty of things that make headlines, but that also fit pretty well with the view of the world we were already able to see, and so may appear to be an anti-climax in some ways. Ive said before that this is actually a positive sign, that we are able to know so much about the way the world works from traditional sources, history etc. There is still plenty of detail that helps fill in some small gaps in the picture on specific countries or issues, but by its very nature this is not going to be earth-shattering. Especially as Chomsky and others have long since analysed historical versions of this sort of material and enlightened us as to the nature of the game, these leaks can only add a little more to an already large mass.
Now Im the first one to go on about how important information is, especially in this age. But what traps the world in its current state is not a lack of information. It is a lack of means by which to act upon the information, to have full public discussion about the topics it raises and take these discussions to their natural end, to actually change things in a substantial way. The information alone does not set us free.
Will2403
Active Member
I agree.
Whereas Chomsky may have educated us and many more besides, if all this information does is regurgitate his worldview on the six o'clock news then I consider that earth shattering. People who watch x-factor are learning about this stuff. Its great! To untrap ourselves we need the rabble multitude aware of the fact they are being fucked over, with the masses educated in the way of the world, then the number will start to count for something. Much of the rest of the world are already there, its just western populations that have been kept in the dark.
I'll go and read the article, sorry for talking about something I hadn't read.
Whereas Chomsky may have educated us and many more besides, if all this information does is regurgitate his worldview on the six o'clock news then I consider that earth shattering. People who watch x-factor are learning about this stuff. Its great! To untrap ourselves we need the rabble multitude aware of the fact they are being fucked over, with the masses educated in the way of the world, then the number will start to count for something. Much of the rest of the world are already there, its just western populations that have been kept in the dark.
I'll go and read the article, sorry for talking about something I hadn't read.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Naomi Wolf's letter to interpol
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds-datin_b_793033.html
Julian Assange captured by worlds dating police.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds-datin_b_793033.html
Julian Assange captured by worlds dating police.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I have on this thread said that there wasn't anything at that point that would really change the overall opinion of a foreign government to the US, but there is certainly lots of valuable and interesting detail coming out that simply was not known before, never would have come out except as part of somebody's memoirs in thirty years, and should have been known. The details of the spying order on the UN, for instance, or that the Tories promised to run a pro US regime, or that the UKG covered up for cluster bombs and explicitly sold out Diego Garcia. It's about having proof for this stuff out in the open and undeniable.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Exactly, plenty of people think stuff 'like' this happens but being able to point to actual evidence is a whole different ball game.
xes
F.O.A.D
Cables show that a Texas company, help some stoned Afghan cops get some little boy action.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/07/report-wikileaks-cab.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/07/report-wikileaks-cab.html
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
They really aren't, because they're not interested in it. My office is a pretty good cross section of people, and aside from me only one other person was even aware what wikileaks and who Assange is. However, I do have to sit through at least 1 hour a day's worth of discussion.
Early days yet though innit.
The USA has already been forced to reorganize its entire diplomatic corps. You can't tell me that's not a major hindrance for their war effort.
I suspect that Wikileaks is saving hundreds of lives every day.
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
It was only a matter of time. Kudos to all those hackers bringing it down.
Vive la resistance and game on!
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