Why the Guardian is going down the pan!

[Puddy_Tat]

My Dad was born in Canning Town in 1920, and lived in East Ham, which was a county borough of Essex. County boroughs had more powers than ordinary Urban District Councils. So, what my Dad would have called London when he was young would not have included much of that that we today called London.

likewise, mum-tat's family goes back a few generations in what's now the bexley borough / kent borderlands between belvedere and dartford, but it was all kent then.

and yes - the patchwork of cities, county boroughs (as east ham and west ham - then separate - were), urban districts, municipal boroughs, rural districts and so on was faintly complicated.

as an aside from all the arguing, east ham has got quite an impressive cluster of municipal buildings round the town hall -



bottom left was built as fire station, the flats next to it probably for firemen / fire officers, public baths (which in those days meant where you could go and have a bath, not just a swimming pool), tram depot, power station and council depot.

 

[two sheds]

I find it disappointing that the role of Cathedrals in this whole London city dispute is being ignored.

 

[Pickman's model]

Christ, you're a bore.

This is straight out of the ou playbook for lost arguments. The point isn't that this is a fascinating topic but that once again the guardian is wrong and descends further down the pan.

You've suggested that the ons location of haringey is the one that counts. Introducing irrelevant information from an irrelevant body - another ou tactic. Bodies that provide funding - which the ons don't - have classed haringey as outer london for decades.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anyway, parts of our conurbation that are South of the Thames are actually far further North than many of those fancy-pants places that reckon they're in North London.

Everyone knows that Tripcock Ness in Woolwich is North of Docklands, Poplar, Limehouse, Shadwell, Trafalgar Square, Mayfair, Notting Hill, Shepherds Bush, Acton and Ealing.

None of those places are in North London. Ealing, shepherd's Bush, Notting Hill, Acton in West London. Docklands, poplar, Limehouse, shadwell in East London. Trafalgar Square, Mayfair in Central London.

 

[brogdale]

None of those places are in North London. Ealing, shepherd's Bush, Notting Hill, Acton in West London. Docklands, poplar, Limehouse, shadwell in East London. Trafalgar Square, Mayfair in Central London.

I was addressing the definition posited in #11600

 

[Pickman's model]

I was addressing the definition posited in #11600

The southern border of London as the Thames doesn't make east, west or central London north London.

 

[brogdale]

The southern border of London as the Thames doesn't make east, west or central London north London.

Well, we're obviously attempting to rationalise a ludicrous notion here, anyway. To many South Londoners, the north starts at the mid-point of any bridge or tunnel they're using to venture North. Certainly for me when the 93 drops me on the far side of Putney Bridge and I'm in Fulham, I know I'm in the North of London.

 

[Orang Utan]

This is straight out of the ou playbook for lost arguments. The point isn't that this is a fascinating topic but that once again the guardian is wrong and descends further down the pan.

You've suggested that the ons location of haringey is the one that counts. Introducing irrelevant information from an irrelevant body - another ou tactic. Bodies that provide funding - which the ons don't - have classed haringey as outer london for decades.

Youre the only person interested in winning arguments to the extent that it’s become your entire personality.
It doesn’t actually matter what zone Haringey is in. No one cares. You remain sad, pathetic and etiolated

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I find it disappointing that the role of Cathedrals in this whole London city dispute is being ignored.

yes - southwark (as in the original borough of southwark, not the former boroughs of bermondsey and camberwell which got merged with it) should make a bid for city status

 

[brogdale]

Youre the only person interested in winning arguments to the extent that it’s become your entire personality.
It doesn’t actually matter what zone Haringey is in. No one cares. You remain sad, pathetic and etiolated

When so-called journalists attempt to exemplify a process said to be affecting inner London boroughs with a specific example of an outer London Borough, it does matter, particularly in the context of a thread dedicated to the deficiencies of those journalists.

 

[Orang Utan]

But it is an inner London borough. By my definition. It’s not on the outside, so it’s on the inside, and that’s all there is to say on the matter. Here is the line to draw under it
_______________________________________

 

[Pickman's model]

But it is an inner London borough. By my definition. It’s not on the outside, so it’s on the inside, and that’s all there is to say on the matter. Here is the line to draw under it
_______________________________________

I may enjoy being right but I never invent my own definitions to assure that happy result. If as you've said no one cares about this, you've shown yourself very much to be no one by your insistence by repeated posting that it clearly matters to you.

map 2.2 from the 2016 london plan illustrates the reality that haringey is considered an outer london borough

 

[SpookyFrank]

Statistically, you're human, but not in any meaningful sense of the word.

I don't think you know what 'statistically' means. Being human is a discrete category, it doesn't exist on a probability spectrum.

 

[andysays]

Youre the only person interested in winning arguments to the extent that it’s become your entire personality.
It doesn’t actually matter what zone Haringey is in. No one cares. You remain sad, pathetic and etiolated

Maybe not to you, because you live in some god-forsaken northern wasteland, but to those of us who live in the London Borough of Haringey it is at least of passing interest.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Maybe not to you, because you live in some god-forsaken northern wasteland, but to those of us who live in the London Borough of Haringey it is of least passing interest.

He might live in the worst city on this or any other Earth but at least he knows where it is.

 

[brogdale]

London in all of it's confusing guises (City, County, Inner, Outer, Greater and functional) is, of course, a microcosm of the confusing country/nation/state for which it acts as the capital.

 

[Pickman's model]

Youre the only person interested in winning arguments to the extent that it’s become your entire personality.
It doesn’t actually matter what zone Haringey is in. No one cares. You remain sad, pathetic and etiolated

Why doesn't it matter? There is a statutory definition which is used for strategic planning purposes. Don't you see how that might make an actual difference to people's lives if they live in an outer london borough with inner city issues? But obvs you haven't considered this, being utterly ignorant of the matter.

 

[andysays]

He might live in the worst city on this or any other Earth but at least he knows where it is.

And I know where Haringey is, without a bunch of provincial twats like you and OU adding your pointless contributions

 

[Orang Utan]

And I know where Haringey is, without a bunch of provincial twats like you and OU adding your pointless contributions

And now here you are, Penfold

 

[Elpenor]

 

[andysays]

And now here you are, Penfold

 

[Cerv]

while Haringey as a whole is outer London clearly, would it be fair to describe some parts along the edges as inner?

 

[Orang Utan]

while Haringey as a whole is outer London clearly, would it be fair to describe some parts along the edges as inner?

inner but not Inner, to satisfy the pedants

 

[Pickman's model]

while Haringey as a whole is outer London clearly, would it be fair to describe some parts along the edges as inner?

Yes, namely Islington, Camden and hackney

 

[Puddy_Tat]

London in all of it's confusing guises (City, County, Inner, Outer, Greater and functional)

and then there's the areas covered by the london post codes, the london dialling code, and the area inside the M25, which are all different as well.

and until 2000, the metropolitan police area was also different.

then there are a few places which were considered part of greater london but made enough political fuss not to get included in the 1965 greater london council area.

 

[brogdale]

The Guardian have followed up their inner/outer London school places piece with a fuller article in today's Observer including some useful maps evidencing some hollowing-out of family demographics from the highest rents zones to the more 'affordable' 'burbs:

 

[PTK]

In the hope of confusing some people, I will state the fact that Haringay is in Haringey.

 

[Orang Utan]

The only thing I know about Haringey is its famous ladder

 

[DotCommunist]

all I know of it is a rotten labour admin and the whole haringey development vehicle shit from years ago

 

[andysays]

In the hope of confusing some people, I will state the fact that Haringay is in Haringey.

You've managed to confuse yourself, I'm afraid.

What you should have written is that Harringay is in Haringey.