Why the Guardian is going down the pan!

[TopCat]

I couldn't bring myself to read the Starmer hagiography past the first few lines - literally stomach-churning stuff.

I look forward to a Jackie-style comic strip in the next Saturday edition, with Angela Rayner batting her lashes unrequitedly at Starmer as he buckles some swash or other. With a big thought bubble reading 'My party leader is so dreamy...'

Photo love story continues: Angela asks her friends for advice. “He wants me to do mucky things, be a red Tory but I feel so cheap”.

 

[two sheds]

Interesting that these terms that are apparently used in a gender-neutral sense always seem to be the male version of that term.

This is true, although I did use lads before because I hadn't noticed any lasses joining in the dispute.

 

[Sue]

That's not commonly used as a plural, the way "guys", "lads", etc. are. Not really equivalent.

Only one I can think of is 'ladies' but that's generally used in a negative sense when applied to men/a mixed group.

 

[Sue]

This is true, although I did use lads before because I hadn't noticed any lasses joining in the dispute.

And maybe using it would make any women less likely to join in? Just a thought.

 

[BillRiver]

Only one I can think of is 'ladies' but that's generally used in a negative sense when applied to men/a mixed group.

I can think of lots of examples like that where the words are used negatively, but none that are truly equivalents of "lads" or "guys' which are generally thought to be neutral.

 

[two sheds]

And maybe using it would make any women less likely to join in? Just a thought.

Perhaps, although given the somewhat pointless nature of the dispute that would have been a positive.

 

[Sue]

Perhaps, although given the somewhat pointless nature of the dispute that would have been a positive.

Good to know you're looking out for us .

 

[JTG]

shrug

That's what the young people do Sue, even the girls. A great bunch of lads imo

 

[Sue]

shrug

That's what the young people do Sue, even the girls. A great bunch of lads imo

Interestingly, I was having this very discussion with some of the young women I work with the other day. They overwhelming don't like it at all -- working in a very male-dominated environment with lots of (un)conscious bias stuff going on might do that to you though.

So, not all young people. Not all 'girls'. Not even all young women it seems. But as a not young person, what do I know anyway, eh?

 

[Pickman's model]

Interestingly, I was having this very discussion with some of the young women I work with the other day. They overwhelming don't like it at all -- working in a very male-dominated environment with lots of (un)conscious bias stuff going on might do that to you though.

So, not all young people. Not all 'girls'. Not even all young women it seems. But as a not young person, what do I know anyway, eh?

We were all young once

 

[Sue]

We were all young once

I'm so old I often forget that.

 

[maomao]

'guys' has been used as a gender-free plural address for a very long time. To me 'lads' still has too many associations with 90s lad culture and the phrase 'one of the lads' to be a problem free UK equivalent to 'guys' just yet.

 

[killer b]

I've done some research since we last had the 'lads' conversation, and found that while it's use for both genders is popular with very online ultra-ironic depressed millennials, it's widely misunderstood by almost everyone else, so probably best not bothering with.

 

[two sheds]

Good to know you're looking out for us .

See, if I hadn't said that you might not have joined in at all

We know these things you know :taps nose:

 

[BillRiver]

I asked my 19 year old niece about this. She says that her and her friends don't use "lads" or "guys" at all because of the inherent sexism. They prefer "peeps", "folks" or "everybody" and she doesn't think they are particularly unusual. She says the only people she knows who use "lads" are the "wannabe hipsters" who she can't abide.

 

[two sheds]

She says the only people she knows who use "lads" are the "wannabe hipsters" who she can't abide.

 

[krtek a houby]

We were all young once

Once in every lifetime

 

[Pickman's model]

Once in every lifetime

some of us reach a second childhood, tho. but never a second adolescence.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

"lads" in the instance concerned seemed to be ok to me as it was referring to two blokes internet-fighting

It isn't a generally acceptable group term, and more importantly is a bit sad and millennial. It's often used in the context of implying something is sad/millennial of course. Discourse is complex.

 

[JTG]

I have consulted with my friend in Belfast and she tells me it's perfectly normal and acceptable over there.

I'm sorry you don't like it but it doesn't really change the fact that it's used in this way, especially in Ireland

Again shrug

 

[platinumsage]

Reminds me of my dad who would always complain whenever anyone used the word “kids” to refer to children, on the basis that children are not baby goats.

 

[JTG]

'guys' has been used as a gender-free plural address for a very long time. To me 'lads' still has too many associations with 90s lad culture and the phrase 'one of the lads' to be a problem free UK equivalent to 'guys' just yet.

My mate in Belfast also tells me the usage of "UK" is problematic, far more so than "lads"

 

[JTG]

Reminds me of my dad who would always complain whenever anyone used the word ”kids” to refer to children, on the basis that children are not baby goats.

tbh this place is somewhat old fashioned and stuck somewhere in 2004 so that's probably about right

 

[maomao]

stuck somewhere in 2004

That late?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Loving all the people here who are still talking like millennials are young people. I'm a millennial and I'm easily old enough to be someone's grandfather.

 

[JTG]

That late?

I had to put it somewhere after the popularisation of message boards but before current school leavers were even born so that's about right tbh

 

[JTG]

Loving all the people here who are still talking like millennials are young people. I'm a millennial and I'm easily old enough to be someone's grandfather.

The oldest millennials turn 40 this year. Which kind of highlights my point tbh

 

[equationgirl]

Urban is still sexist on occasion conciously or subconsciously, and like Sue it grates after a while. I also work in a male dominated industry where 'guys' is used, although that's less inherently problematic than 'lads'.

 

[JTG]

Calm down lads, it's only language

 

[Sue]

Urban is still sexist on occasion conciously or subconsciously, and like Sue it grates after a while. I also work in a male dominated industry where 'guys' is used, although that's less inherently problematic than 'lads'.

I also can't help but feel that men telling women what is/is not gender neutral/problematic isn't a great look.