It's communism, not capitalism.
Why the f-ck did anyone ask Klaus Schwab the time anyway
- Thread starter gosub
- Start date
Start building more then. I'll be hugely dissapointed if I own less than 5 houses in retirement.
Move away like I did. I'm very happy. No rich scum or middle class liberals anywhere near me.
Why do you think people buy £25million pound yacts? To stay away from po-faced middle class liberals, that's why!
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
You gullible fool, you just watch some videos on the internet and your little brain falls into a cesspool of idiocy.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Reckon I'd be very lucky to own a house at any point in my life.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
You don't know what communism even is.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
why a QR code when they do all that on the phone you carry?
An ID like a passport you mean?
Why are they going to do this to us all? Waht will "they" gain? And who is this "They"? Why are there no whistleblowers, ever? You do know we live in ruthless capitalists socities where most of the evil can be seen in plane view on the pages of the financial times, right?
Who is this shadowy "they"?
Let's hear it before you paranoid project all over the internet?
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
I don't mind discussion of coruse of the evils of power, and for sure a load of it is hidden, but this absoloutly fucking tiring idea that there's this secret group pulling all of the strings all of the time is just...
It's actually emotionally soothign to some "i am special, i have seen through the matrix, I am on the side of good, pointing out to all these sheep the evil".
It's actually emotionally soothign to some "i am special, i have seen through the matrix, I am on the side of good, pointing out to all these sheep the evil".
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
like this, as i say, you must get one hell of a shot of superiority to see things so clearly..
Really? It's a matter of fact that the decentralised blockchain world wants to tpkenise and economise everything but at least with that it's all up for grabs by anyo e who wants to get involved.
How many carbon credits do you own?
Where can you buy them?
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Why the fuck are you rabbiting on about carbon credits when BigMoaner hasn't even mentioned them? Why do you cultists insist on dredging up utterly irrelevant shit all the time?
Oh my goodness. Nobody has claimed that shit doesn't get invented under capitalism. Besides, weren't you just earlier claiming that capitalism is communism or some such muddle-headed bullshit?
If age-reversing drugs and personal planets really are in the offing, then we don't need to be "thankful" to the inhumane system of exploitation that got us there, no more than we need to be "thankful" to feudalism for the horse collar and advancements in crop rotation. We can enjoy such advancements without needing hereditary lords around which we have to debase ourselves through bowing and cringing. Capitalism certainly won't reciprocate any gratitude we display.
Thesaint
Active Member
Capitalism or free market enterprise?
They are kind of the same thing that can deliver huge improvements in living standards for the masses.
If though power ends up to concentrated in limited number of areas or people then capitalism becomes a problem rife for abuse and the enterprise aspect is potentially compromised.
The trouble is many people identify as anti capitalist (as they see problems with it), then see communism of some kind of answer, but ultimately risks power being concentrated in a small but different number of hands, so risks the same failure mechanism.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
In which "happiness" is measured by continuous paranoid mumbling.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a far-left[3][4][5] sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology and current within the socialist movement[1] whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange which allocates products to everyone in the society.[6][7][8]
"Common ownership" is rather the opposite of "a small ... number of hands", is it not?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
It's genuinely amazing the number of people I've argued with who will outright deny that the dictionary definition of communism exists even when presented with it. Or will angrily insist that it's wrong.
Though that said I do find the "ah but thing was invented under capitalism, pwnd commie!" argument worse. At least the first one is just straightforward ignorance born of growing up in a propagandist society. The latter indicates a shortfall of both logic and imagination.
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Thesaint
Active Member
That's text book example of common ownership, but in practice a small number of people will end up running everything on their behalf. Ownership and management of a something aren't the same thing.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
And there's a difference between management being undertaken by people democratically delegated to do the job, and management undertaken by people who got their positions through inheritance, personal connections or wealth.
Thesaint
Active Member
In theory, but if you have a monopoly of control those in control risk drifting off course and my point originally is whether their power is inherited or delegated the risk is still there once the management lose focus.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
The whole point of common ownership to democratise control. If the workers in a collectivised industry are unsatisfied with the performance of their management, then they have recourse to change that. Can't do that if the managers are also the owners, and have the power of the state to back them up in any dispute.
Thesaint
Active Member
I admit my view of how a 'communist' world is run is influenced by the Soviet union experiment, where by the state ran and decided everything and how without a free market those industries didn't respond to consumer buying signals thus became unproductive and the collectivised workers had little influence anyway. Trying to run a complex and diverse economy from the top is unsustainable.
I realise that may not be an ideal communist(communalist?) example but I can imagine how many peoples vision of a non capitalist future could be destined.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Well, we're not obliged to make the same mistakes the Soviets did, no more than the modern bourgeoisie are compelled to repeat the follies of Revolutionary France.
Thesaint
Active Member
And not repeating mistakes of the past is a worry & will be far, far harder than people think maybe because it relies on those configuring the new world to do it on the people's behalf which human nature doesn't lend itself to even when there's good intent.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
There are risks in trying to change things, for sure. But there's also a heavy cost in allowing things to continue as they are. I for one appreciate that chattel slavery is no longer the primary economic motor of society as it was in ancient times. I'm sure if one had proposed abolishing slavery back in the day, that one would have received all kinds of arguments not just for why slavery is important and necessary, but also natural and desirable.
I think a good case can be made that the short-sighted profit-seeking that is all but mandated by the current socio-political system is having a significant dampening effect on our ability as a civilisation transition our primary energy sources, as part of an adequate response to the climate crisis. We have the nuclear and renewable technologies, we have the resources to build them, and many people are calling for action to be taken. But progress has been slowed because the fossil fuels industry is owned and controlled by a minority whose obscene wealth allows them to buy off politicians and subvert democratic impulses to change things for the better. We didn't vote for the fossil fuels industry to increase plastics production, the tiny minority of wealthy owners have been doing that of their own initiative as a means of protecting their profits while ordinary people, smaller private businesses and governments have become more aware and more willing to do something about the problems with burning fossil fuels for energy. Oh, and that same fossil fuels industry were well aware of the problems they were causing for decades before climate change became such a major topic of public discourse, but of course they kept that quiet.
Thesaint
Active Member
You mention the fossil fuel industry influencing policies, but what make you think some other large industry won't be influencing Klaus and the WEF against our interests?
I agree smaller more dynamic industries operating would likely get us out of a rut...though that does mean fostering a genuine more Adam Smith esque free market for them to flourish which is different to state run influenced monopolies. I know the definitions of right and left wing are totally confused these days, as free markets are labelled as 'right wing'.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I don't recall saying that the fossil fuels industry was the only source of undue influence. I don't know what particular segment of capital are represented by the likes of Schwab and the WEF, but whatever it is I'm sure they would like to protect their profits too. Which makes accusations of them being communists all the more fucking batshit.
I suspect that's because the people tooting the horn for supposed "free markets" are all right-wingers. The type who love to name-drop Adam Smith but who conveniently forget how scathing he was about the parasitic nature of landlords.
Thesaint
Active Member
WEF being communist probably comes from Klaus's "own nothing and be happier" statement which echoes the Soviet Union where the state owns everything and individuals are disempowered from genuine stake holding and it's more a label of convenience than historical accuracy. Either way the little people don't get a say in the WEFs Dreamworld however you name it.
The concept of the dangers of too much "rent seeking" in economy is lost on most to be fair.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
It's not even Schwab who said that, the WEF were quoting someone else who was making a prediction about where society might go, and who was not necessarily endorsing that prediction.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Jfc do you really think when Klaus says that he endorses seizing the means of production on behalf of workers' Soviets? That the head of one of Capital's more influential factions, controlled by and for the existing ruling class, is in favour of transferring everything to State ownership?
Not that this would actually be communism, but are you hearing how fucking bonkers that sounds? It's directly funded and owned by the world's 1,000 biggest companies ffs, it is Capital. You might as well denounce McDonalds for being Maoists.
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