Why people don't want kids anymore (apparently)

[Cloo]

Seen some discussion recently on what a global phenomenon this is and how financial/subsidised childcare/increased parently leave offers don't seem to have made any impact where that's been tried.

Money is obviously a huge part but I think contributing factors are:

• The world is obviously fucked
• Not being stably housed - I've been lucky to mostly avoid renting, but given the stress being moved on causes (obviously happens more in some countries than others) I can see people who will always have to rent going 'There's no way I'm going through this multiple times with kids'
• Women are beginning to realise they get a shitty deal from parenting on a lot of fronts, plus I do tend to agree with the thought some people are putting out that actually, women don't have some 'natural urge' to have kids - we've just been told for millennia that we do, and we can be perfectly happy without them in the equation

I'm not sure there's much comeback from this other than 'unfuck the world' somehow.

 

[girasol]

I've got to say, one was enough for me: all the life admin that goes with children, plus full-time job? Then coming home from work and having to think about dinner, bedtime, school stuff next day... I really didn't enjoy that period so much. Not having extended family around also made it a bit lonely - I mean, there were other parents and their kids but I never felt that close to them, so it didn't feel like a community. We live in a way that's not really conducive to raising children anymore. Not in London anyway, I'm sure other people have very different experiences, but that was mine.

Surrounded by people, kids, parents, but always felt like something was missing. I tried to get close and have fulfilling friendships with son's friends parents, but everyone's lives is too fractured to really have a proper connection.

Also, having a traumatic birth didn't help. The fact that you don't have a single obstretician/midwife that follows you all the way - someone you know, but it's just many strangers in a souless hospital - doesn't make it for a good birthing experience.

 

[kabbes]

Seen some discussion recently on what a global phenomenon this is and how financial/subsidised childcare/increased parently leave offers don't seem to have made any impact where that's been tried.

Money is obviously a huge part but I think contributing factors are:

• The world is obviously fucked
• Not being stably housed - I've been lucky to mostly avoid renting, but given the stress being moved on causes (obviously happens more in some countries than others) I can see people who will always have to rent going 'There's no way I'm going through this multiple times with kids'
• Women are beginning to realise they get a shitty deal from parenting on a lot of fronts, plus I do tend to agree with the thought some people are putting out that actually, women don't have some 'natural urge' to have kids - we've just been told for millennia that we do, and we can be perfectly happy without them in the equation

I'm not sure there's much comeback from this other than 'unfuck the world' somehow.

All this.

Also, capitalism (and its precursor patriarchal systems) systematically denigrates ‘unproductive labour’, i.e. work done to maintain the self and the family. As this becomes increasingly internalised as an atomised, transactional valuation of the self and others, it increasingly seems unthinkable that the self would take on the selfless community work of raising children.

There’s also the increasing psychologisation of society — the general population are now very accustomed to using very psychologised language to talk about their lives, emotions and goals. With this comes more self-reflection about one’s own limitations and the needs of children. In itself, maybe not a bad thing, but it makes it distinctly more likely that people will simply judge themselves as inadequate to become parents.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The world is fucked. Who in their right mind would want to bring a new life into it.
And the little bastards scribble all over your walls with permanent markers.

 

[wtfftw]

I think also it's the extended childhood of men and that women want to mother children not partners. So they don't get the relationship to have kids in (plus, precarious housing and planet).

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Am hearing more and more from people in their 50s who now have kids in their 20s that they openly state that they wish they'd never had kids. Not that they don't love their kids or wish they didn't exist, rather that if they had their time again they wouldn't go there. That kind of talk was utterly taboo not so long ago, still fairly taboo today, but hearing it more and more often.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I can barely Adult let alone Parent.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Without being a smug fucker, my experience of parenthood has been mostly positive and I would do it again, the nearly 10 year gap between our kids, maybe not, but in a lot of ways that's been cool as fuck an'all (except nosey pricks asking why such a gap - answer: none of your fucking business).

 

[Saul Goodman]

except nosey pricks asking why such a gap

I'd be telling them it was so the older one could look after the baby while you went out on the piss.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'd be telling them it was so the older one could look after the baby while you went out on the piss.

Closer to the truth than you know. Only now the selfish fucker's buggered off to Plymouth and we have to look after our own child

 

[trabuquera]

It's sort of "all of the above, and more", isn't it - a whole string of factors acting together. For the first time in human history a majority of women even have a choice in the matter with relatively safe & reliable contraception and/or abortion. Decline of religion which sold faaaaamily life as one part of women's sacred (if inferior) mission). We've all had decades of information about how growing human population's screwing up the planet. Societies which enforced very low fertility by force haven't collapsed - and while many have caused their own problems to women in the aftermath, have at least demonstrated that women don't just shrivel up and die without having maximum possible children. All sorts of philosophies - from the economic 'earn first' pressure of capitalism to the mental-health 'me first' view of some psychology - have made it entirely rational to put your own financial and social independence ahead of having more kids. Social atomisation means fewer kin available to care for young ones and generally more pressure-cookery tiny unhappy families rather than big loose collective ones. There's still a vast lag in the sheer work of domestic and child care meaning many women get mugged off / exploited by male partners who don't do enough, whether or not the women are also doing paid work. I for one think it's totally a hopeful development and stable, or even declining, population is not even close to being a crisis. It might trigger a new golden era even. Imagine it - every child a wanted child. Would that be so bad?

 

[MrsArcanum]

Would not be without either of my children, and for someone non maternal, have raised two good ones. However, grandchildren are highly unlikely, daughter and her husband have worked out that they can either save to retire early, or have children. They are working towards the former.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's sort of "all of the above, and more", isn't it - a whole string of factors acting together. For the first time in human history a majority of women even have a choice in the matter with relatively safe & reliable contraception and/or abortion. Decline of religion which sold faaaaamily life as one part of women's sacred (if inferior) mission). We've all had decades of information about how growing human population's screwing up the planet. Societies which enforced very low fertility by force haven't collapsed - and while many have caused their own problems to women in the aftermath, have at least demonstrated that women don't just shrivel up and die without having maximum possible children. All sorts of philosophies - from the economic 'earn first' pressure of capitalism to the mental-health 'me first' view of some psychology - have made it entirely rational to put your own financial and social independence ahead of having more kids. Social atomisation means fewer kin available to care for young ones and generally more pressure-cookery tiny unhappy families rather than big loose collective ones. There's still a vast lag in the sheer work of domestic and child care meaning many women get mugged off / exploited by male partners who don't do enough, whether or not the women are also doing paid work. I for one think it's totally a hopeful development and stable, or even declining, population is not even close to being a crisis. It might trigger a new golden era even. Imagine it - every child a wanted child. Would that be so bad?

Yes. Look at the problems in India, and China where every child's a wanted child but more people wanted boys than girls so they've something of a gender imbalance developed. A nation of spoilt brats beckons.

 

[Thora]

If I was a 20 year old woman now I wouldn't be having kids.
I love mine obviously and I have a partner who is 50/50 on parenting and housework but kids are so expensive, male partners seem to mostly create extra work - younger women generally seem to do much better on their own.
Very noticeable in my own family with 8 female cousins aged 30-40 - only 3 of us have had children (in our 20s) or even have long term male partners and it's 3 of the 4 oldest.

 

[weltweit]

I figured we would try one, and if that went ok we could always have another go.

We have 1

 

[kabbes]

I for one think it's totally a hopeful development and stable, or even declining, population is not even close to being a crisis. It might trigger a new golden era even. Imagine it - every child a wanted child. Would that be so bad?

If you're a social psychologist, it's also a fascinating natural experiment. During the baby boom, there were too many children for adults to provide close attention to individual children. So regardless of child rearing theories of the time (and their bizarre anti-attachment beliefs), it was just inevitable that kids would grow up with a lot of freedom. Now, that's flipped -- tonnes of adults per child. Combined with all the electronic devices we now have, children are growing up HIGHLY surveilled at all times. What effect will that have? Time will tell.

 

[og ogilby]

The world is fucked. Who in their right mind would want to bring a new life into it.

I use that excuse too, but tbh, if the opposite was the case, and the world just kept on getting better, I'd just make up a different excuse.

I don't want kids because I don't like them and I'm too selfish. There, I've said it.

 

[Idaho]

Am hearing more and more from people in their 50s who now have kids in their 20s that they openly state that they wish they'd never had kids. Not that they don't love their kids or wish they didn't exist, rather that if they had their time again they wouldn't go there. That kind of talk was utterly taboo not so long ago, still fairly taboo today, but hearing it more and more often.

I agree, but I'm minded to consider a kind of observational bias from our age - having grown up children, more free time to reflect, etc.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I use that excuse too, but tbh, if the opposite was the case, and the world just kept on getting better, I'd just make up a different excuse.

I don't want kids because I don't like them and I'm too selfish. There, I've said it.

That's the best reason. Although nobody should feel bad for not wanting them. You're doing your bit for the planet.

 

[MickiQ]

There are lots of reasons I think.
The cost of a child is horrendous both in time, money and lost career opportunities (especially for the woman) so even women who want to have children now leave them to later in life when fertility drops off so often a woman will only have one or two at most. Women are at their most fertile when they are their most financially insecure.
Women are choosing career and a good lifestyle over a family, I know plenty of married couples who don't have kids, a few because they can't but mostly because they don't want too (some regret it some don't) They'd rather have a good holiday each year than a kid.
Women are choosing not to even bother with a husband. Women today have more options than either wife and mum or crazy cat lady. There are a lot of younger women especially who are happy with their friendship circle without the need for a male partner. They'd sooner focus on time with their careers and their friends. This also gives younger women today a lot of extra options even if they change their mind. They don't have to settle for Mr Good Enough or even Mr Right anymore. They can hold out for Mr Perfect. If they don't find him then they've lost nothing.
So what to do about it? there are actually lots of options, at one end of the scale we have generous maternity (and paternity) benefits, financial, legal and practical support for women returning to the workforce after having a family. Affordable and subsidised childcare etc. At the other end of the scale we have banning abortion and contraception and generally reducing women rights. I prefer the first but I don't actually think we'll see either tbf.

I use that excuse too, but tbh, if the opposite was the case, and the world just kept on getting better, I'd just make up a different excuse.

I don't want kids because I don't like them and I'm too selfish. There, I've said it.

No-one should ever have a child unless they want one and are absolutely committed (both father and mother) to rearing their child. I truly can't imagine anything worse in life than being a child that no-one wants or loves.

 

[gentlegreen]

.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Seen some discussion recently on what a global phenomenon this is and how financial/subsidised childcare/increased parently leave offers don't seem to have made any impact where that's been tried.

Money is obviously a huge part but I think contributing factors are:

• The world is obviously fucked
• Not being stably housed - I've been lucky to mostly avoid renting, but given the stress being moved on causes (obviously happens more in some countries than others) I can see people who will always have to rent going 'There's no way I'm going through this multiple times with kids'
• Women are beginning to realise they get a shitty deal from parenting on a lot of fronts, plus I do tend to agree with the thought some people are putting out that actually, women don't have some 'natural urge' to have kids - we've just been told for millennia that we do, and we can be perfectly happy without them in the equation

I'm not sure there's much comeback from this other than 'unfuck the world' somehow.

We often see kids at work who have lost their homes because of evictions. They're always absolutely shattered by it.

Evictions are an act of violence and the judges and lawyers who facilitate them are culpable, regardless of what the law says. A law that says you can makes children homeless for your own financial convenience is wrong.

 

[Orang Utan]

Perhaps we're just better informed about the consequences of having children and therefore more likely to forego the hassle, opting for an easier life instead?

 

[Dr. Furface]

I don't want kids because I don't like them and I'm too selfish. There, I've said it.

That’s me too. I just never felt like they were for me, that if I had any they’d just tie me down, and that was the last thing I wanted. Also, I was a lousy teenager and I’d have hated to have a kid of my own who treated me like I treated my parents!

 

[SpookyFrank]

I enjoy working with kids.

But I do not get home in the evening and think, 'I wish there were kids here too'. Mostly I just think, thank fuck the dog will never learn to speak.

 

[Orang Utan]

thank fuck the dog will never learn to speak.

what have you been doing to it?

 

[trashpony]

My son is the best thing I’ve ever done. At the same time I’m really glad I had him late for a few reasons - because I’d done so much before I had him so have never really resented him, because I was/am a proper grownup and because I was financially secure (children are ££££).

It’s been a very enjoyable 18 years but I’m really excited about the travelling I’m going to do once he flies the nest.

 

[Cloo]

Perhaps we're just better informed about the consequences of having children and therefore more likely to forego the hassle, opting for an easier life instead?

And not having kids has become much more normalised. I mean, I basically assume people don't have kids until they tell me otherwise and I tend not to ask people if they kids or not, or if they're married. If getting to know someone, once I've asked where they live, I might ask something along the lines of 'And who do you live with?' as an (I hope) non-judgemental way of getting to know their life set-up because I'm not going to make any assumptions.

Weirdly I think my current job is the first one I've been in where most people I'm working with seem to be parents. Probably not unconnected to having moved into a much better paid field than publishing.

 

[BigMoaner]

All this.

Also, capitalism (and its precursor patriarchal systems) systematically denigrates ‘unproductive labour’, i.e. work done to maintain the self and the family. As this becomes increasingly internalised as an atomised, transactional valuation of the self and others, it increasingly seems unthinkable that the self would take on the selfless community work of raising children.

There’s also the increasing psychologisation of society — the general population are now very accustomed to using very psychologised language to talk about their lives, emotions and goals. With this comes more self-reflection about one’s own limitations and the needs of children. In itself, maybe not a bad thing, but it makes it distinctly more likely that people will simply judge themselves as inadequate to become parents.

400% (and there’s a lot of great thinkers who have narrowed in on this). We are becoming increasingly cut off and isolated, with third spaces and communities becoming a minimal part of life. All we have left it seems is the plaster givers of psychologists, therapists, and self help and medication.

Also does anyone even remember the time when a family could rely on just one income lol pmsl.

If I didn’t have kids now I would probably stay that way.

 

[Hollis]

And not having kids has become much more normalised. I mean, I basically assume people don't have kids until they tell me otherwise and I tend not to ask people if they kids or not, or if they're married. If getting to know someone, once I've asked where they live, I might ask something along the lines of 'And who do you live with?' as an (I hope) non-judgemental way of getting to know their life set-up because I'm not going to make any assumptions.

Weirdly I think my current job is the first one I've been in where most people I'm working with seem to be parents. Probably not unconnected to having moved into a much better paid field than publishing.

Is not having kid normalised? I think you're still considered something of an oddball/second class citizen if you haven't done the married with kids for whatever reason.