Corrected for you.Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of classwar
Corrected for you.Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of classwar
Is Labour (or any other party) in favour of zero hours rent and utility bills? As long as these remain a more or less set amount, unvaried by the amount of work your employer gave you, zero hour contracts do not equal a living wage.Labour aren't against zero hours contracts, only "exploitative zero hours contracts" <snip>
Labour aren't against zero hours contracts, only "exploitative zero hours contracts":
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/zerohours-contracts-exploitative/9437
There are non-exploitative uses of them. As an example the company I work for has someone who has retired but will occasionally provide some support when required since they have a lot of valuable knowledge/experience. They're kept on the books on a zero hour contract so they can be paid when they do this work, with the advantage that they don't have to go through the hassle of setting themselves up as a consultant and deal with all their own tax affairs (and it's simpler for the company too). I can't see anything wrong with this, and don't think a blanket ban would make much sense if it stopped these kind of simple arrangements.
At the same time I don't think examples like my one should be used to argue against any restriction on their use, companies like Sports Direct need to be hung out to dry.
Labour thinks the ones they use are non-exploitative. Like the people in the report who were employed for Glasgow Council on zero hours contracts, to put up the stage settings saying "ban exploitative zero hours contracts".There are non-exploitative uses of them.
the critical thing is determining what counts as "non-exploitative" - the bottom line is people should only be working on zero hours contracts out of positive choice, and not just "choice" in the absence of any better options.Labour aren't against zero hours contracts, only "exploitative zero hours contracts":
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/zerohours-contracts-exploitative/9437
the critical thing is determining what counts as "non-exploitative" - the bottom line is people should only be working on zero hours contracts out of positive choice, and not just "choice" in the absence of any better options.
This is also partially why "banning" zero hours contracts is basically pointless. Because unless they're going to ban casual work altogether then the same situation is going to exist with a different name.This is nonsense - all employment contracts are exploitative, because of the structural power difference between employer and employee. Zero-hours contracts are simply more exploitative than others, because the employee has no control over what hours they work and thus no guarantee of achieving a particular wage in any given week.
And the idea that an employee can enter into any contract of employment out of "positive choice" rather than economic necessity, let alone a zero-hours contract, is just the sort of simplistic and economically illiterate bollocks we'd expect from both the Labour party and from you.
Yes, ok point taken - it remains true though that some people eg. people who have taken early retirment that might want a few hours showing visitors round a museum every week, actually quite like the freedom of a zero hours contract. What's totally wrong is to imply that this represents the situation of most zero hours contract workers, who are on them only because employers aren't offering enough jobs with a minimum number of guaranteed hours. It's the latter category of people that are on "super-exploitative" contracts that should be helped in the first instance.And the idea that an employee can enter into any contract of employment out of "positive choice" rather than economic necessity, let alone a zero-hours contract, is just the sort of...
Yes, ok point taken - it remains true though that some people eg. people who have taken early retirment that might want a few hours showing visitors round a museum every week, actually quite like the freedom of a zero hours contract. What's totally wrong is to imply that this represents the situation of most zero hours contract workers, who are on them only because employers aren't offering enough jobs with a minimum number of guaranteed hours. It's the latter category of people that are on "super-exploitative" contracts that should be helped in the first instance.
And surely if there is scope for your "people who have taken early retirment that might want a few hours showing visitors round a museum every week" then someone can and should be employed to do that work on a properly contracted regular basis?
Not if they don't want to - they might want the flexibility of not working many hours one week, if they're looking after the grandkids at half term etc. In no way am I saying this justifies the rampant casualisation of the labour market in general. Labour should, and hopefully will, end the imposition of zero hours contracts across whole sectors of the economy. The key is issue is that the flexibility should be on the workers' side, not the bosses'.
Of course that's the case in most instances - but not in *all* instances, that is my point. That is why the government can always point to a few people who actively welcome the flexibility of zero hours contracts (in my example, of the semi-retired person wanting the option of a few hours of relatively enjoyable work here or there without having to do a minimum each week - that's the very limited circumstance of when there's no reason to ban the arrangement). *of course* I'm not saying that is in any way how most zero hours contracts work or should be judged - which is why Labour wants exploitation on zero hours contracts to end.All the flexibility in zero-hours contracts is in favour of the employer - the employee doesn't have any choice in how many hours they work or when those hours are - that is the whole point of such contracts. Only someone who is effectively insulated from such practices could make the mistake of thinking that flexibility and choice have anything to do with an employee's experiences of zero-hours contracts.
Not if they don't want to - they might want the flexibility of not working many hours one week, if they're looking after the grandkids at half term etc. In no way am I saying this justifies the rampant casualisation of the labour market in general. Labour should, and hopefully will, end the imposition of zero hours contracts across whole sectors of the economy. The key is issue is that the flexibility should be on the workers' side, not the bosses'.
That sort of flexibility is not actually delivered by a ZHC, is it? Your boss can still insist that any day of work is vital to the role and tell you to work it or find another job, just like they could if you had a regular part-time contract.
It's appears to some people to be delivered to an extent - but it's not *guaranteed*, no. But then it would be only ever appeal to those for whom paid working hours are relatively discretionary - which obviously isn't the case for most ZHC workers.
you daft twat. *all* employer - employee relationships are exploitative, as any novice marxist could tell you.the critical thing is determining what counts as "non-exploitative" - the bottom line is people should only be working on zero hours contracts out of positive choice, and not just "choice" in the absence of any better options.
pragmatic. but not, i note, principled.Anyone who votes for Labour is knowingly condoning a political party turning a blind eye to child abuse. If you think that is perfectly fine, as many brainwashed Labourites do, then vote for them as you're more than welcome to one another. I, and many others, were appalled at the events in Rotherham and other cities and towns in the UK and will be voting for the only party pragmatic enough to stamp it out, UKIP.
you daft twat. *all* employer - employee relationships are exploitative, as any novice marxist could tell you.
I've already agreed as much in response to andysays - still, wouldn't expect you to entertain an original thought
i never said i thought i was original. in fact i thought i made clear the notion at least 150 years auld.I've already agreed as much in response to andysays - still, wouldn't expect you to entertain an original thought