Why Labour are Scum

[Balbi]

I think you're underestimating the ease with which a Tory cabinet minister could suspend the whole infrastructure of local democracy, override the wishes of the electorate and face down an enraged union workforce and local community. They could try, but especially if it was to occur in more than one area, this wouldn't be in any way straightforward.

It's not so much that they could try, but that it is the process of what happens. The legislation was introduced in the late eighties, and given a bit of a polish recently I believe. The section 5 officer on the council reports the setting of the budget to the finance director and whitehall dept, the council gets a couple of warnings to set a proper budget, and then they lose the power to set budgets. And if you think they would give a fuck, you're very wrong.

There's no good Rocky IV'ing about it - it'd take Labour councils everywhere doing it, and having support in doing it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't get those who say they're the same. To those people: would you feel equally disgusted voting for Labour as for the Tories, and if not, why not?

I say that they're the same because if you bother to analyse their basic policies, they're the same. What differs is only how they're presented. As I've said ad nauseam, a shit sandwich with a flat-leaf parsley garnish is still a shit sandwich.

As for feeling disgusted, I'd feel equally disgusted voting for any of the three main parties. Yellow arseholes, blue arseholes or red arseholes - they're still arseholes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, I would feel equally disgusted. I've not voted Labour for years, never ever voted Tory. Sadly that means that each time I vote I am basically throwing my vote away. One day I won't be, and I look forward to that day.

Would you be in favour of a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper so you could express disapproval of the choices offered?

 

[two sheds]

Based on lies that the Labour party told. Which will always be the issue. Labour deliberately set out to lie about WMD to justify the war. I am sure the Tories would have supported the war if they had been in government but I doubt they would have told such porkies.

Of course they would you're just being naive. They're willing to lie about getting rid of the sick and unemployed being the main problem to address in society, they'll lie about any fucking thing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This has always been the mantra right across the Left...

What's that line that pretty much encapsulates every post articul8 makes?

Ah, that's it, "vote Labour with no illusions". The desperate scramble of the ideologically-bereft for any vote they can garner.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The Tories were just as eager for war in Iraq (and a significant proportion of the Labour membership was opposed). The LDs supported the war once it started.

They did so (and I feel soiled, defending the L-Ds) because it's parliamentary tradition to support the ruling party in such matters once hostilities start.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They can set a needs budget etc

That'd mean having to take responsibility for doing so, and possibly buttfucking any future political career in their party.

So, ain't gonna happen!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why the merry fuck would they do that?

where is the mass self confident working class movement demanding they do that and offering to back them up?

And therein lies part of the problem, IMO.

Many people aren't prepared to lead, but might "follow", unfortunately, examples that people can follow are few and far between presently, although this may change as summer comes on, and the austerity measures due to come on-stream between march and July kick in.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sat in gentleman's clubs in London.

Gentleman's clubs like The Carlton, or "gentlemens' clubs" with nekkid ladies?

Actually, don't answer. It'll obviously be both!

 

[ferrelhadley]

Then give people something better to vote for.

 

[Onket]

Would you be in favour of a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper so you could express disapproval of the choices offered?

I've always voted for someone, tbh.

 

[geminisnake]

I've always voted for someone, tbh.

So had I until the last local election when I decided that not one of them was worth me getting washed, dressed and leaving my house for. The local councillors are a bunch of lying, pathetic, useless shites to a man/woman

 

[Idris2002]

Ernestolynch's tactic of scrawling STALIN over his ballot paper looks increasingly sensible.

 

[8115]

With Labour seemingly being the only game in town I think we need a thread illustrating why anybody with any sense wouldn't touch them with a bargepole and exactly what Labour members are supporting.

What's your practical suggestion?

What you're saying is that Labour are not an acceptable alternative to the current government, which I happen to disagree with. Is that what you're saying? I'm assuming you don't mean that the current government are superior to Labour? At least give me that.

 

[Casually Red]

However bad labour are, they'll always be a million times better than the fucking Tories.

most of them are tories for fucks sake . Red wedge had some good tunes but it was a load of bollocks.

 

[youngian]

So had I until the last local election when I decided that not one of them was worth me getting washed, dressed and leaving my house for. The local councillors are a bunch of lying, pathetic, useless shites to a man/woman

You can always go to Washington yourself Mr Smith

 

[Lo Siento.]

it's amazing to me how people still defend the Labour Party. The problem in British politics is not which side is in power, it's the narrow limits of the whole political discourse, and the exclusion of the vast majority from that discourse.

If you offer support to the Labour Party, based on whatever criteria, you're helping perpetuate that.

 

[Onket]

So had I until the last local election when I decided that not one of them was worth me getting washed, dressed and leaving my house for. The local councillors are a bunch of lying, pathetic, useless shites to a man/woman

I don't think I've ever voted for anyone (while I've been in London) who has actually got in.

 

[two sheds]

I don't think I've ever voted for anyone (while I've been in London) who has actually got in.

I've lived in various places across south of england for the last 25 years so ditto.

 

[fogbat]

Utter nonsense. Its just that the 'Labour' brand makes you feel better about yourself. Both are two sides of the same shitty stick and in many ways I would argue that worse things happen under a Labour government because of the sort of stupid sentiment you have expressed which means they face less opposition.

Somehow you dont mind being metaphorically fucked if its a nice politican with a red rosette on whilst doing so.

I think this may be your most Liked post on here ever.

 

[William of Walworth]

it's amazing to me how people still defend the Labour Party. The problem in British politics is not which side is in power, it's the narrow limits of the whole political discourse, and the exclusion of the vast majority from that discourse.

If you offer support to the Labour Party, based on whatever criteria, you're helping perpetuate that.

Good post, and I agree -- apart from you finding it amazing -- I don't find it at all surprising really ...

 

[geminisnake]

You can always go to Washington yourself Mr Smith

No I can't. I have difficulty leaving my house most days, the idea of having to interact with people daily scares the feck out of me. I would like to do stuff to help people(and have done before) but I wouldn't be able to switch it off, this is not a good thing for a councillor
Plus you would need to be more than one or they gang up against you. I've seen it happen

 

[redsquirrel]

Don't blame Labour or their supporters for seeking a soft social democratic approach - that's what they believe in.

I'm not I'm blaming them for implementing cuts that will increase inequality, make life worse for most people living in the UK and, as Random has pointed out, are not supported by the majority.

And as for Labour councils implementing the Tory cuts, er what else can they do?

Is this a joke? They could not fucking implement them, and they wouldn't if they believed in what they profess to believe in.
(I'd also point out that in the first story this measure wasn't "forced" on them by the austerity agenda, they choose to build <100 social homes)

 

[ferrelhadley]

it's the narrow limits of the whole political discourse, and the exclusion of the vast majority from that discourse.

"Vast majority"?

 

[redsquirrel]

Good thread. Don't suppose you've got a link for that first story have you?

Quimcunx posted it on the Heygate thread below and I just pinched it, I think it came from Occupy London's facebook page originally.

 

[redsquirrel]

it's amazing to me how people still defend the Labour Party. The problem in British politics is not which side is in power, it's the narrow limits of the whole political discourse, and the exclusion of the vast majority from that discourse.

If you offer support to the Labour Party, based on whatever criteria, you're helping perpetuate that.

Precisely why we need to make a collection of stories that show exactly what Labour are.

 

[Lo Siento.]

"Vast majority"?

Yes?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ernestolynch's tactic of scrawling STALIN over his ballot paper looks increasingly sensible.

Claimed tactic.

Probably voted Lib-Dem.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think I've ever voted for anyone (while I've been in London) who has actually got in.

Do us all a favour and vote Boris for Mayor next time round!

 

[geminisnake]

Boris is going to get a safe seat imo so won't be available for role of Mayor.