Why Labour are Scum

[articul8]

this is what your party did/does

You think that will have stopped happening? I don't justify what happened in any way, shape or form. In fact I'm trying to build opposition to the Tories' "secret courts" proposals which would stop that kind of information getting disclosed.

 

[ska invita]

Now there's an idea - Plaid Cymru to stand in England - I'd vote for them too.

id vote SNP if i could

 

[redsquirrel]

Entirely local but I just heard from my mum at the weekend that Leeds council (Labour run), is closing her local library too.

 

[Stoat Boy]

if they're better the difference is fractional at best...on policy im hard pressed to find the difference myself...all the worst things happening today are a direct continuation of new-labour policies.

"Labour will make cuts to welfare budget if it wins 2015 election" Shadow work and pensions secretary points to resentment of benefit claimants and says social security must be 'reinvented'
enjoy

What you are failing to understand is that people who make the sort of proclamations about Labour being 'a million times better than the Tories' (or words to that effect) are not interested in policy but primarily about how they identify themselves. Modern politics are more about brand loyalty than any sort of ideology. I would like to think that Tory voters are proving to be more interested in the later than Labour because of the amount who are switching to UKIP based on hard political matters but I fear that come the next election it will not be the case.

 

[Onket]

UKIP in with a real chance, you think?

I hope not.

 

[Onket]

And could you ever see a day when you'd vote Labour again? How about Tory?

Who knows if I would vote Labour again. I could have upwards of 50 years left on this planet.

Can't see myself ever voting Tory.

 

[butchersapron]

What you are failing to understand is that people who make the sort of proclamations about Labour being 'a million times better than the Tories' (or words to that effect) are not interested in policy but primarily about how they identify themselves. Modern politics are more about brand loyalty than any sort of ideology. I would like to think that Tory voters are proving to be more interested in the later than Labour because of the amount who are switching to UKIP based on hard political matters but I fear that come the next election it will not be the case.

Seems to me that people who say that base it entirely on political considerations. What evidence do you have of anything different? Or is this just a generic everything everyone else ever does is wrong, they can't even vote for what they see as the least worst option properly nowadays rant/whinge?

 

[SpineyNorman]

With Labour seemingly being the only game in town I think we need a thread illustrating why anybody with any sense wouldn't touch them with a bargepole and exactly what Labour members are supporting.

So here are two stories to kick it off.


Destroying the arts and closing over half the libraries in Newcastle

Good thread. Don't suppose you've got a link for that first story have you?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The issue not whether Labour are scum or not; but whether there is any political alternative to what is happening, and where that alternative is to be found.

Don't blame Labour or their supporters for seeking a soft social democratic approach - that's what they believe in.

And as for Labour councils implementing the Tory cuts, er what else can they do?

 

[frogwoman]

They can set a needs budget etc

 

[articul8]

And as for Labour councils implementing the Tory cuts, er what else can they do?

They could show some resistance and table illegal needs budgets - at the very least they can refuse to evict council tenants for falling behind on rent/council tax as a result of benefit changes.

 

[Onket]

If they do nothing, they are basically telling people there is no point voting for them.

 

[ska invita]

And as for Labour councils implementing the Tory cuts, er what else can they do?

get some practice in for 2015 when they'll be implementing labour cuts instead

 

[SpineyNorman]

I've got a cracking one from last night - there's a bit of everything in it - lies, hypocrisy, sheer evilness and lashings and lashings of incompetence. On my phone right now so it would take me hours to type it out but when I get in I'll come back here and do a post about it.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Miranda Sawyer has just tweeted a link to the story on the U75 blog.

 

[geminisnake]

However bad labour are, they'll always be a million times better than the fucking Tories.

Crap. They are just as bad as each other and at least you KNOW you're going to get shafted by the tories if you're not one of them. Labour are two faced self interested pricks just the same as the tories and have been for a long time.

It's not the social security that needs reinvented, it's the parliamentary system. These people have 'forgotten' that they were elected to represent their voters not to shit on them left, right and centre. Work shy skivers??? Have you seen any parliamentary time lately?? Where the feck are they all?? And they're claiming £60k + to line their own fecking pockets at the cost of you and me.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

They could show some resistance and table illegal needs budgets - at the very least they can refuse to evict council tenants for falling behind on rent/council tax as a result of benefit changes.

Why the merry fuck would they do that?

where is the mass self confident working class movement demanding they do that and offering to back them up?

 

[Random]

The issue not whether Labour are scum or not; but whether there is any political alternative to what is happening, and where that alternative is to be found.

Don't blame Labour or their supporters for seeking a soft social democratic approach - that's what they believe in.

And as for Labour councils implementing the Tory cuts, er what else can they do?

If they were Social Democrats worthy of the name at least some of them would be willing to kick up a fuss and show that they were not willing to be the axemen of austerity. Some of them might even be willing to go to prison. Isn't it obvious that there would be a massive outpouring of sympathy for councilors who defie the cuts?

The fact that (as far as I know) no serious amount of Labour representatives want to even try to make austerity unworkable shows that it is not a Social Democratic party at all. It is simply a party that thinks it can do economic Thatcherism without the nasty social and cultural baggage of Thatcher. As a party it genuinely thinks there is no alternative, and is terrified that rocking the boat will stuff its chances of running the British state.

You're right you shouldn't attack people for simply working towards policies they think are a good idea. but the whole point with Labour is that it enforces policies its own members and voters think are shit.

Don't attack a snake for being a snake. But it's a fair point to tell someone wrapping a snake round their neck that it's not a feather boa.

 

[Random]

where is the mass self confident working class movement demanding they do that and offering to back them up?

Where is the mass movement demanding austerity?

 

[frogwoman]

If they were Social Democrats worthy of the name at least some of them would be willing to kick up a fuss and show that they were not willing to be the axemen of austerity. Some of them might even be willing to go to prison. Isn't it obvious that there would be a massive outpouring of sympathy for councilors who defie the cuts?

The fact that (as far as I know) no serious amount of Labour representatives want to even try to make austerity unworkable shows that it is not a Social Democratic party at all. It is simply a party that thinks it can do economic Thatcherism without the nasty social and cultural baggage of Thatcher. As a party it genuinely thinks there is no alternative, and is terrified that rocking the boat will stuff its chances of running the British state.

You're right you shouldn't attack people for simply working towards policies they think are a good idea. but the whole point with Labour is that it enforces policies its own members and voters think are shit.

Don't attack a snake for being a snake. But it's a fair point to tell someone wrapping a snake round their neck that it's not a feather boa.

Well said.

 

[articul8]

Why the merry fuck would they do that?

where is the mass self confident working class movement demanding they do that and offering to back them up?

they ought to be offering some sought of political leadership, building confidence, mobilising resistance. Not just saying "if there was a mass movement we'd discover a backbone, but as it is we'll just taxe a big fucking axe to your services instead",

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Don't attack a snake for being a snake. But it's a fair point to tell someone wrapping a snake round their neck that it's not a feather boa.

 

[chilango]

Where is the mass movement demanding austerity?

Sat in gentleman's clubs in London.

 

[butchersapron]

Don't attack a snake for being a snake. But it's a fair point to tell someone wrapping a snake round their neck that it's not a feather boa.

Rather depends who it is.

If they're putting it around someone elses neck however...

 

[Random]

they ought to be offering some sought of political leadership, building confidence, mobilising resistance. Not just saying "if there was a mass movement we'd discover a backbone, but as it is we'll just taxe a big fucking axe to your services instead",

I do agree with with Spanky's point, that the lack of a working class movement is the reason why there's no Labour Party backbone. But that's not an excuse, it's an explanation. And it's yet another reason why we always need independent working class organisations, whether or not Social Democrat/Labour politicians are in government.

 

[Random]

Rather depends who it is.

If they're putting it around someone elses neck however...

Like the anaconda supports the hanged man

 

[sihhi]

I do agree with with Spanky's point, that the lack of a working class movement is the reason why there's no Labour Party backbone. But that's not an excuse, it's an explanation. And it's yet another reason why we always need independent working class organisations, whether or not Social Democrat/Labour politicians are in government.

Never will there independent organisation if over a dozen variations of excuses for Labour are wheeled out every time.

 

[Balbi]

They could show some resistance and table illegal needs budgets - at the very least they can refuse to evict council tenants for falling behind on rent/council tax as a result of benefit changes.

The first one ends, quote quickly given the streamlined legislation, with Eric Pickles setting the budget and all the Councillors in purdah. There's no surcharge issue, as in the eighties - the Councillors get bypassed and neutered by the secretary of state.

 

[articul8]

The first one ends, quote quickly given the streamlined legislation, with Eric Pickles setting the budget and all the Councillors in purdah. There's no surcharge issue, as in the eighties - the Councillors get bypassed and neutered by the secretary of state.

I think you're underestimating the ease with which a Tory cabinet minister could suspend the whole infrastructure of local democracy, override the wishes of the electorate and face down an enraged union workforce and local community. They could try, but especially if it was to occur in more than one area, this wouldn't be in any way straightforward.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Can anyone seriously think it makes no difference whatsoever whether the Tories get back in again at the next election or whether we get a Labour government instead?

Of course it makes a difference.

A difference in presentation of the same policies, you shill.