Why Labour are Scum

[Sprocket.]

Apparently Balls claimed that "most people don't want the railways to be renationalised". Out of touch or what?

 

[Sprocket.]

Yet more bowing and forelock touching to their masters from the 'people's party'

 

[Maurice Picarda]

It doesn't matter if 70% of the public say they want renationalisation, it's just not a sensible strategy. The owners would need to be compensated. Far better to tighten up franchise conditions to the point where they become unworkable for private owners and then award franchises gradually, one by one, to Network Rail, which could over time recoup TOC capabiliites from the private sector.

 

[nino_savatte]

So what you're proposing is renationalisation at glacial speed?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

So what you're proposing is renationalisation at glacial speed?

More or less, yes.

 

[DotCommunist]

a) borrow to pay the current 'owners' off. Gvmnts can borrow at rates far preferential to Joe Citizen. Tax the rich more to cover the loan.

b) take it back and refuse compensation. Tax the rich more to pay for the inevitable legal fall out. Or just change the law to make what you did legal, IDS style

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Gvmnts can borrow at rates far preferential to Joe Citizen.

As long as they don't start seizing commercial assets and terrifying businesses, of course.

 

[DotCommunist]

As long as they don't start seizing commercial assets and terrifying businesses, of course.

borrow to the hilt first and then bring the Terror

 

[Maurice Picarda]

borrow to the hilt first and then bring the Terror

Seems sensible. The borrowing will have to be in foreign currency, and there can't be too much early transparency about the plan. Far better to make reassuring, pro-business noises now in advance of the election.

So there you go, Balls is doing everything you would want.

 

[Frankie Jack]

a) Or just change the law to make what you did legal, IDS style

That. Politicians can do what they want, when they want.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

That. Politicians can do what they want, when they want.

Not really. A lot is said here about the demands of global capital and business interests, and they are certainly a constraint, but the electorate are a bunch of whiny, vicious, demanding, cuntwitted short-termists as well, and they have politicians by the balls.

One has to feel sorry for MPs, whose core skill is merely to latch onto simplistic ideas and work a room well.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Not really. A lot is said here about the demands of global capital and business interests, and they are certainly a constraint, but the electorate are a bunch of whiny, vicious, demanding, cuntwitted short-termists as well, and they have politicians by the balls.

One has to feel sorry for MPs, whose core skill is merely to latch onto simplistic ideas and work a room well.

Yep. Those ideas mostly coming from think tanks. No originality from ploticians these days.

 

[DotCommunist]

well Joe Citizen is at the mercy of political whim, big capital not so much.

 

[CNT36]

a) borrow to pay the current 'owners' off. Gvmnts can borrow at rates far preferential to Joe Citizen. Tax the rich more to cover the loan.

b) take it back and refuse compensation. Tax the rich more to pay for the inevitable legal fall out. Or just change the law to make what you did legal, IDS style

Make sure the the price paid is far below market value. That is how these things are done.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not really. A lot is said here about the demands of global capital and business interests, and they are certainly a constraint, but the electorate are a bunch of whiny, vicious, demanding, cuntwitted short-termists as well, and they have politicians by the balls.

The tories have just changed the law of the land so that if someone wants to drill for gas under your house, you have no say in the matter. Which private citizens do you suppose would have demanded that particular change? And no, Lord Browne doesn't count.

If anything the politicians are at the mercy of what the newspapers keep saying the people want, like sending Abu Qatada home or whatever. I doubt there are that many Daily Mail readers who have even met Abu Qatada, and yet apparently they're all ever so hopping mad with him about something.

 

[Dogsauce]

The banks already own most of the rolling stock on the Railways through special leasing companies. Given the state had to throw a lot of money at the banks, can this stock be taken back on public books as 'interest'? Then lease it to the private companies at pip-squeaking rates, which they can pay in company shares if cash isn't to hand, eventually gaining the state a majority stake.

Either that or stove Branson's skull in with a tin of beans and take it all for nothing.

 

[DairyQueen]

a) borrow to pay the current 'owners' off. Gvmnts can borrow at rates far preferential to Joe Citizen. Tax the rich more to cover the loan.

b) take it back and refuse compensation. Tax the rich more to pay for the inevitable legal fall out. Or just change the law to make what you did legal, IDS style

c) Find a loophole which would allow the government to tender a bunch of new services on existing lines (perhaps tweaking the routes where necessary). A public sector provider offers to run them at cost?

 

[DairyQueen]

The tories have just changed the law of the land so that if someone wants to drill for gas under your house, you have no say in the matter. Which private citizens do you suppose would have demanded that particular change? And no, Lord Browne doesn't count.

If anything the politicians are at the mercy of what the newspapers keep saying the people want, like sending Abu Qatada home or whatever. I doubt there are that many Daily Mail readers who have even met Abu Qatada, and yet apparently they're all ever so hopping mad with him about something.

Qatada... that's the guy that has a hook for a hand, right?

 

[Frankie Jack]

The banks already own most of the rolling stock on the Railways through special leasing companies. Given the state had to throw a lot of money at the banks, can this stock be taken back on public books as 'interest'? Then lease it to the private companies at pip-squeaking rates, which they can pay in company shares if cash isn't to hand, eventually gaining the state a majority stake.

Either that or stove Branson's skull in with a tin of beans and take it all for nothing.

(((tin of beans)))

 

[SpookyFrank]

Qatada... that's the guy that has a hook for a hand, right?

You're thinking of Abu Hamza, the previous fictional bad guy but one.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

She even did a winking smiley, SpookyFrank.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Not really. A lot is said here about the demands of global capital and business interests, and they are certainly a constraint, but the electorate are a bunch of whiny, vicious, demanding, cuntwitted short-termists as well, and they have politicians by the balls.

One has to feel sorry for MPs, whose core skill is merely to latch onto simplistic ideas and work a room well.

Only a very small part of the electorate decides a general election. Swing voters in key marginals, generally middle-class swing voters as it happens.

So both parties take massive bungs from dodgy millionaires to pay for political data analysis consultants and their software in order to effectively target those middle class swing voters in key marginals. Which means that they aren't going to have any policies that wouldn't appeal to dodgy millionaires and/or middle class swing voters.

See e.g. http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2013/01/06/sunday-review-“the-victory-lab-the-secret-science-of-winning-campaigns”-by-sasha-issenberg/

The book being reviewed: 'The Victory Lab' describes the relevant techniques in a US context, but as you may have noticed, both the Tories and nuLabour are keen to hire consultants who've been successful in the US (or Australia).

I'm in 'Mad Frankie' Field's constituency and my vote makes no difference whatsoever to the general election outcome. It's going to return a huge labour majority despite 'Mad Frankie' being a Tory for all practical purposes. Nobody's vote here matters while we remain within the attractors of the current political status quo. The only votes that matter, in terms of politicians actually being influenced by what those voters think that they want, are swing votes in constituencies where the outcome is actually in doubt.

(separate and more contentious point removed for another post)

 

[DotCommunist]

Seems sensible. The borrowing will have to be in foreign currency, and there can't be too much early transparency about the plan. Far better to make reassuring, pro-business noises now in advance of the election.

So there you go, Balls is doing everything you would want.

Balls, the fifth columnist.

 

[J Ed]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/02/dennis-skinner-labour-national-executive

Dennis Skinner, the scourge of Tory prime ministers from Ted Heath to David Cameron who was dubbed the "Beast of Bolsover", has been voted off Labour's governing national executive committee, prompting an outcry from across the party.

Hours after the veteran MP for Bolsover had taunted the prime minister as a member of the Bullingdon Club responsible for wrecking the NHS, the party announced that he had been unseated.

Skinner, 82, who was first elected to parliament in 1970, was replaced in the NEC backbench MPs' section by the former minister John Healey after reportedly irritating Ed Miliband's office. The other backbenchers elected to the NEC were the former deputy leader Margaret Beckett and the Liverpool Walton MP Steve Rotheram.

The removal of the veteran leftwinger prompted a strong reaction. John McDonnell, a fellow leftwinger, tweeted: "Dennis Skinner voted off Labour's NEC by Labour MPs. Sign of how distant from reality and from the views of our members some of them are."

 

[DotCommunist]

one of the few good eggs and they turf him out of influence. Wankers.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

If there's ever going to be a left alternative, nuLabour has to be wrecked as an electoral force.

 

[Favelado]

one of the few good eggs and they turf him out of influence. Wankers.

He's landed more hits on the Cameron and the cabinet in this parliament than the rest of the opposition put together. He's principled, honest, popular and effective. So he has to go!

 

[DotCommunist]

the purge of genuine labour socialists continues eh

 

[krink]

Millibean hasn't even got the balls to say he supports the strikes tomorrow but I can guarantee the speakers at the rally will be telling us to vote for him. Fuck that! (and I will be heckling them if they do say vote labour btw)

 

[Kalfindin]

With Labour seemingly being the only game in town I think we need a thread illustrating why anybody with any sense wouldn't touch them with a bargepole and exactly what Labour members are supporting.

So here are two stories to kick it off.


Destroying the arts and closing over half the libraries in Newcastle

Labour is the only game in town. The only realistic way working class people will gain social and economic emancipation in Britain is by reclaiming labour and reshaping it as a socialist party.

Working class people should be re-joining labour and taking their party back, its the only realistic option, talk of tiny socialist parties, anarchism etc...all pie in the sky.

To answer your question, there is no alternative.