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Why Labour are Scum

redsquirrel

This Machine Kills Progressives
With Labour seemingly being the only game in town I think we need a thread illustrating why anybody with any sense wouldn't touch them with a bargepole and exactly what Labour members are supporting.

So here are two stories to kick it off.
How the Heygate was sold(out)

The Planning Application was for what was the Heygate Estate an area of 1,100 council homes built in late seventies at the Elephant.

The council decided 12 years ago to "Regenerate" the area and so evicted the local families living in the area with the promised right of return.

But last night the 4 Labour councillors who were the majority approved an application to develop the site from an international development corporation Lend Lease that:

1. Instead of 1,100 new social housing units included only 71. So no right of return for over 1,000 families.

2. Instead of social housing, 2,400 private luxury apartments to be built instead.

3. Instead of building human scale housing, the supposed brutal ugly Heygate which had at maximum 12 storey blocks, is to be replaced with a plethora of massive tower-blocks up to 30 storeys tall.

4. The council has a policy of requiring 20% renewables in new buildings. The developer proposed ZERO and it was granted.

5. The council has a policy of zero car parking in developments at major transport hubs. The developers proposed 600 car parking spaces and it was granted.

6. The council has a policy of requiring space for cycling in new developments. The developers proposed zero meters of segregated cycle paths and it was granted.

7. The new roads and footpaths in the development are to be privatised.

8. Existing public park is to be replaced with a privatised park.

9.The council has a policy of protecting existing tree canopies. The developer proposed to fell 286 trees (70% of the existing mature tree canopy) and it was granted.
What is the point of having elected councillors or a planning department when they collude to destroy our communities and trash our environment?

Destroying the arts and closing over half the libraries in Newcastle
It is also proposing to cut 10 of its 18 libraries and reduce funding to its museums by half.

.......

Librarian Becky Gardner told me: "A lot of our readers can't afford the bus fare to the city library." Her colleague, Kay Connelly, said: "People spend all day here – we've got the heating on, and we make people tea and coffee. It's somewhere people can belong, and you can feel safe."
She added: "You'll lose the younger generation, too: and then they'll wonder why literacy rates are going down. Once we're taken away, we won't reopen. Once we're gone, we're gone."
 
Blair and labour bear ultimate responsibility because of the lies they told the rest of the country.

Labour were in another way worse than the tories - they are supposed to be the part of the workers and when they got in after 18 years they turned out just as bad. The tories are the party of the rich and greedy but labour betrayed the people they are supposed to represent.
 
However bad labour are, they'll always be a million times better than the fucking Tories.

Utter nonsense. Its just that the 'Labour' brand makes you feel better about yourself. Both are two sides of the same shitty stick and in many ways I would argue that worse things happen under a Labour government because of the sort of stupid sentiment you have expressed which means they face less opposition.

Somehow you dont mind being metaphorically fucked if its a nice politican with a red rosette on whilst doing so.
 
I don't get those who say they're the same. To those people: would you feel equally disgusted voting for Labour as for the Tories, and if not, why not?
 
... who didn't invade Iraq and bear the responsibility for killing a quarter of a million people it has to be said.
You're off down a blind alley by accepting this comparison. Labour will always look good when compared to the Tories. That's all they have to do to automatically get millions of votes: point at the Tories; they just have to stay one inch to the left. That's why we need a thread pointing out how self-defeating this kind of support is, because it just allows the LP leadership to drive the party even closer to the Tories.
 
I don't get those who say they're the same. To those people: would you feel equally disgusted voting for Labour as for the Tories, and if not, why not?

Well I would feel more disgusted voting for Labour than the Tories because I see the former as being more hypocritical although my Tory voting days are over so its all hypothetical.
 
I don't get those who say they're the same. To those people: would you feel equally disgusted voting for Labour as for the Tories, and if not, why not?

Yes, I would feel equally disgusted. I've not voted Labour for years, never ever voted Tory. Sadly that means that each time I vote I am basically throwing my vote away. One day I won't be, and I look forward to that day.
 
Yes, I would feel equally disgusted. I've not voted Labour for years, never ever voted Tory. Sadly that means that each time I vote I am basically throwing my vote away. One day I won't be, and I look forward to that day.

And could you ever see a day when you'd vote Labour again? How about Tory?
 
Can anyone seriously think it makes no difference whatsoever whether the Tories get back in again at the next election or whether we get a Labour government instead?
Yes, the entire political system (which wasn't great in the first place) has been entirely co-opted by neoliberal capitalism. Politicians can tinker round the edges with stuff like gay marriage, asbos, elected police commissioners or whatever insignificant shit they're trying to sell us this week but at the end of the day the Labour party will be trying to prove that they're 'tough on law and order' (see asbos) and the Conservatives will be trying to convince us that they have personal freedoms at heart (see gay marriage) so it'll all end up pretty much the same. Meanwhile the essential political program of fucking over the 99% in favour of the 1% will continue unabated.
 
tusc will save us

A form of voucher democracy could save us. I dont see the democratic process as the problem, just how it is funded and what that brings with it. Make the system state funded via every registered voter having a voucher with a monetary value to give to which ever political party they like, and forbid any other form of financing, and suddenly the politicians have to truly take heed of those they claim to represent.
 
You're off down a blind alley by accepting this comparison. Labour will always look good when compared to the Tories. That's all they have to do to automatically get millions of votes: point at the Tories; they just have to stay one inch to the left. That's why we need a thread pointing out how self-defeating this kind of support is, because it just allows the LP leadership to drive the party even closer to the Tories.

I agree, but don't see why pointing out Labour's responsibility for Iraq does not belong here. Tories and Lib Dems are now helping to "just" make millions of peoples' lives miserable - that's not as great a crime as being responsible for hundreds of thousands or millions of unnecessary deaths.
 
However bad labour are, they'll always be a million times better than the fucking Tories.

This has always been the mantra right across the Left - even from those with no patience with the consistent pro capitalist status quo record ofall previous Labour Governments . Defenders of this position rightly point to the very real gains made for the working classs by some previous Labour Governments, the post WWII Welfare state obviously being the biggie. TODAY though does New Labour really have any residual connection or loyalty to its traditional working class base ? One only has to look at the social background of the current Parliamentary Labour Party, the money they got/ get from snake-eyed capitalist firms, the penetration of their ranks by "advisors" seconded by Price waterhouse, etc, and the pro-banker, pro capitalist policies of the blair/Brown era, to see that the old mantra is now wildly outdated. The likes of scum like Alan Johnson, entirely dependant on his trades union career for his current status and lifestyle, feels perfectly comfortable , just the other day, to verbally piss on trades unionism yet again ! New Labour have morphed qualitatively over the last 30 years or so, from a generally collaborationist but nevertheless mass reformist party of organised labour and the working class, to a purely pro-capitalist party, competing only on the fine policy detail of the shared neoloberal economic/political/social agenda. If New Labour were in office today they would be implementing pretty much the IDENTICAL austerity policies of the Coalition. They might be doing it more gradually, and with crocodile tears, but implement them they would. Unlike the class hate-filled Tories, Labour has always understood the need to "boil the (working class) frog ... sloooooowwwly" in case we get too angry, see clearly what's going on, and leap out of the societal boiling pan and rip their fucking throats out !

With the Trot Left apparently entering long overdue final organisational and doctrinal meltdown, and New Labour utterly lost to any progressive pro-working class role, we all collectively have to seriously start thinking about a building a new mass party of radical left resistance - even if its initially a rag-bag alliance of everyone who simply wants to resist - on the Syriza model. It obviously wouldn't survive forever as a radical route forward - but might at least organise meaningful mass resistance in the medium term. Unfortunately, the chaos on the Trot Left also seems to have given comfort to even more reactionery pseudo-socialist forces - like the neo-stalinist apologists across the blogosphere who currently are salivating at the collapse of the SWP, those who run the "Socialist Unity" blog for instance - cynically masquerading as proponents of openness and free debate , in contrast to the cultishness of the SWP - whilst constantly denying the monstrous crimes of stalinism. One things for sure , if the broad Left are ever to attract masses of normal working class people to their ranks they'll/we'll have to rid themselves/ourselves of an awful lot of ideological baggage and organisational habits -- and stop suggesting, a la that epochal world class philosopher and sage, Owen Jones , that we now need to prioritise "getting a real socialist movement together to get Labour elected !" .
 
You're off down a blind alley by accepting this comparison. Labour will always look good when compared to the Tories. That's all they have to do to automatically get millions of votes: point at the Tories; they just have to stay one inch to the left. That's why we need a thread pointing out how self-defeating this kind of support is, because it just allows the LP leadership to drive the party even closer to the Tories.
This precisely.

You support Labour you're arguing/backing exactly the things in the OP.
 
I agree, but don't see why pointing out Labour's responsibility for Iraq does not belong here. Tories and Lib Dems are now helping to "just" make millions of peoples' lives miserable - that's not as great a crime as being responsible for hundreds of thousands or millions of unnecessary deaths.
The Tories were just as eager for war in Iraq (and a significant proportion of the Labour membership was opposed). The LDs supported the war once it started.
 
This has always been the mantra right across the Left - even from those with no patience with the consistent pro capitalist status quo record ofall previous Labour Governments . Defenders of this position rightly point to the very real gains made for the working classs by some previous Labour Governments, the post WWII Welfare state obviously being the biggie. TODAY though does New Labour really have any residual connection or loyalty to its traditional working class base ?
Barely any, and I hate them for it. But even then, they're still nowhere as near as bad as the Tory party.

If I could vote for them in London, I'd vote Plaid Cymru. At least they have some proper socialist policies left, but they're nowhere near perfect either.
 
The Tories were just as eager for war in Iraq (and a significant proportion of the Labour membership was opposed). The LDs supported the war once it started.

Based on lies that the Labour party told. Which will always be the issue. Labour deliberately set out to lie about WMD to justify the war. I am sure the Tories would have supported the war if they had been in government but I doubt they would have told such porkies.
 
The Tories were just as eager for war in Iraq (and a significant proportion of the Labour membership was opposed). The LDs supported the war once it started.
Pathetic, what a snivelling toad you are, this is what your party did/does

The OSJI reports that the UK supported CIA rendition operations, interrogated people being secretly detained, allowed the use of British airports and airspace, arranged for one man, Sami al-Saadi, to be rendered to Libya with his entire family, where he was subsequently tortured, and provided intelligence that allowed a second similar operation to take place.
 
If I could vote for them in London, I'd vote Plaid Cymru. At least they have some proper socialist policies left, but they're nowhere near perfect either.

Now there's an idea - Plaid Cymru to stand in England - I'd vote for them too.
 
Barely any, and I hate them for it. But even then, they're still nowhere as near as bad as the Tory party.
However bad labour are, they'll always be a million times better than the fucking Tories.
if they're better the difference is fractional at best...on policy im hard pressed to find the difference myself...all the worst things happening today are a direct continuation of new-labour policies.

"Labour will make cuts to welfare budget if it wins 2015 election" Shadow work and pensions secretary points to resentment of benefit claimants and says social security must be 'reinvented'
enjoy
 
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